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minkie
Posted - 17 March 2017 16:09
You should not assume any such thing.
Assume the worst - you being only person to do the gardening while others have parties and bbqs outside your bedroom window and leave a mess. Leave their bikes in it and pitch tents for houseguests, dogs crapping etc.
If you're still happy to buy go for it!
Osama
Posted - 17 March 2017 16:11
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its daft
the ground flat should own it
minkie
Posted - 17 March 2017 16:11
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I am not saying any/all of this will happen but it might. Especially if other occupiers let their flats and there are tennants. I speak from bitter experience regarding shared space (threads passim).
pancake humper
Posted - 17 March 2017 16:12
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Personally I would rather have no garden than a communal garden. Not unless there was third party maintenance for it.
felix1000
Posted - 17 March 2017 16:14
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Minkie, you have a good point. Just when I lived in a flat upstairs where the ground floor had the " run " of the garden, I would consider it bloody weird to be sunbathing, or having parties outside their lounge and bedroom window, so never did.

My mates agreed they would never do it. There are only 3 flats in the building.

The other owners put 500 quid a year in for upkeep of the property, which includes a gardner to mow the lawn and keep the garden tidy every 2 weeks, for the princely sum of £30.00.
homo heidelberwangsis
Posted - 17 March 2017 16:16
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What minx said - fck that for a bag of spanners
Loopy-Lou
Posted - 17 March 2017 16:17
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if you owned the flat on the third floor, with access to the garden (which would be factored into the price you paid), would you still think it was weird to use the garden that you paid for and pay to keep up?
B'A'M
Posted - 17 March 2017 16:18
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offer the other freeholders cash to carve a bit off and fence off purely for you?

then kill them in their sleep, respond to their mail, switch their lights on and off so no one suspects anything (Home Alone 1 will give you tips on how to make a house look like it's being lived in by loads of people)
Osama
Posted - 17 March 2017 16:19
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sounds like a park
stick up no ball games and stay of the grass signs
felix1000
Posted - 17 March 2017 16:21
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Loopy, I personal would , yes. Would you be keen to make use of the big garden, in which the ground floor flat have have no choice but to view your frivolities and parties from the window of their bedroom and lounge/kitchen which directly faces said garden?

Minkie, what were your experiences?
minkie
Posted - 17 March 2017 16:24
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Loopy-loo is bang on. Assume this shared garden feature will be heavily promoted with any sale or tenancy change.
I have to say do NOT ever get a leasehold flat in any sort of conversion or block wothout a well-managed system. It is not just about money it is about control and muddy waters over responsibility. I eventually left an absolutely gorgeous flat i loved after 17 years because of what happened. Tenants are the problem, you never know what is going to come through the door. The students upstairs were the last straw for me. Piles of rubbish, trashed hall, bikes all over the place, larking around on the roof. Drums banging all night, flood into my flat, doors banging, not locking the front door, giving their keys out to all and sundry, it was a nightmafe and the ll did fvck-all about any of it. Every single square inch of communal area was used and abused.
minkie
Posted - 17 March 2017 16:29
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In my case i was middle flat and as if this werent all enough to blight it, the bloody ll who owned the ground floor flat and garden as well then let that too then applied for massive extension planning per which they got and i was well and truly fvcked when trying to sell. It was very difficult. I had to "trick" the ll in the end into buying my flat too for a good price. But that option not even open to you if the garden is communal....
minkie
Posted - 17 March 2017 16:32
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And just in case you think oo that wouldnt happen to you- this was a listed building in a good conservation area
felix1000
Posted - 17 March 2017 16:42
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Osama, agreed the ground floor flat should own it. But I doubt you can ask the other tenants retrospectively, if they would mind having the entire garden demised to the ground floor flat upon terms? Calling saillaw and other resi conveyancers to the thread please.
Saillaw
Posted - 17 March 2017 16:46
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As a conveyancer I'd never touch a flat with a communal garden. Whilst the current residents might all be lovely you have no idea who might move in and might enjoy using the garden outside your window just to wind you up. Yes you might be able to do a deal with the others to have the whole garden but there's no guarantee of that and one might hold out just to try and get as much cash as possible out of you.

I'm about to try and encourage the long leaseholders of a block of flats to buy out their freeholder and transfer part of their site to me so I can get access to develop a neighbouring plot. I'm sure one of them will prove difficult about giving up their right to a garage and I'll need to do a deal to give them an alternative parking space in my development of pay them off. Difference there is I don't live on site and at the end of the day it can still be profitable even if I have to pay some of them off.
felix1000
Posted - 17 March 2017 16:59
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Sail, most helpful. However I have decided having sold my old , and first purchase of a flat in 2013, that I will not buy another unless I have a garden, or at worst direct access to a garden. The problem is garden flats are very rare in my neck of the woods, and ones that are demised to the property are even rarer. I guess that is a function of living in a London flat, that G/F flats with gardens are perhaps a luxury too far? Hence why I am looking at communal garden flats situate on the ground floor. Does that make sense?
Saillaw
Posted - 17 March 2017 17:26
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Yes I'll be in the market for something similar soon but would rather have an upper floor flat with a roof terrace or a balcony so I have some outdoor space than a flat with a shared garden.
felix1000
Posted - 17 March 2017 18:32
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Sail balconies in London do not really count as outside space, they are so small as to be pointless. Roff teraces are even rarer than communal gardens, but as you say that is the best of both worlds. As I say, I have lived in a fair few flats, and when I was on the upper floor, I never used the downstairs garden, and when I was on the ground floor, never saw anyone using the space at all.

Whilst one can never be sure the flat I have in mind is unlikely to be let to tenants, and if they are certainly not students.
minkie
Posted - 17 March 2017 18:39
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Fleix that is what I thought! Nowhere near any univeristy, hospital etc and in a v residential area. But i had overlooked the local drama school...
felix1000
Posted - 17 March 2017 19:06
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Ah yes Minkie, those pesky drama students!
Bobbie-Fleckmann
Posted - 17 March 2017 19:32
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I had a ground floor flat with direct access to shared garden. The other ground floor people used the garden a lot and we each had an area of terrace before the shared part. We were one big happy commune and there was a lot of hopping in and out if each other's houses (I also once saw a world famous singer taking a young lady over next doors kitchen table but that's another story). It was a long walk involving two keys for any of the upstairs flats to get to the garden so other than parking bikes they rarely used it as was closer and easier to get to the park. I do recall one singles party thrown in the garden on a Sunday night by the upstairs flats and it made me want to kill

Essex, you need to look carefully at how easy it is for upstairs to get to the garden and work on the assumption that you will one day have an outdoors chainsmoker and a hyperactive toddler living upstairs
Osama
Posted - 17 March 2017 19:39
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and the story we want to hear about?
Misshoolie
Posted - 17 March 2017 19:55
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Khunty inconsiderate people buy houses too

Oh horror the other occupants might be tenants! Just imagine
OBaby123
Posted - 17 March 2017 21:16
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Personally I wouldn't buy a property with a communal garden.

I've rented in one and been gf and people used to pitch up and hang out in what felt like our garden. We also nearly got robbed (chased him off) when we were practising lacrosse out there and this was Putney so a nice area.

Looking at a move at the moment and it's not easy at all to buy for the best. I love a ground floor garden flat but I am growing weary of living under tenanted flats.
Lydia
Posted - 17 March 2017 21:18
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I would be very surprised if someone upstairs had rights to the garden did NOT use it.
felix1000
Posted - 17 March 2017 22:23
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Lydia, they do have the right to use it. But for reasons I set out earlier, whether one would regularly. I never did.

Obaby, I think you must have been unlucky, but I guess it does happen. This flat is in Wimbledon Village, so not far from Putney, an area I know well.

Unless I have misunderstood this, what is wrong with living in a tenanted property , when you are an owner? Most tenants in decent areas treat the property as if it is their own??
minkie
Posted - 18 March 2017 10:19
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Of course there is no reason to expect tenants to be any worse neighbours than owner occupiers. But unfortunately my experience was that problems only started with tenants. It depends on the property. The downstairs tenants in a v nice flat were generally abs fine, professional couples which means little if any noise, no rubbish/ dope smoking nuisance, no dodgy friends with keys etc. As a rule.
But a less attractive property (upstairs flat in my case) would not let to a prof. Couple and the ll saw he could make loads more by cramming in a bunch of students. It was effectively an illegal hmo and all sorts of nuisance behaviour.
Yes ofc khunts come from all walks of life but you cant escape fact that an undesirable property will attract less than desirable tenant.
What makes a property unattractive? Mine was good area also, listed building, conservation area, garden suburb etc. But the flat was a v poorly designed, i wouldnt have lived there either.

I hope it all works out for you but im just sying do not make any assumptions about potential neigjbours based on your own middle class values.
Osama
Posted - 18 March 2017 10:59
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People be khunts, people re property absolute khunts
Saillaw
Posted - 18 March 2017 11:26
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It's what Osama said. Some neighbours will be lovely regardless of whether or not they owner occupiers and others will be complete prats. I live in a development with someone who regularly appears in the press for his business success but he eternally pays bills late and ignores the face he only has one parking space and parks his second car on the communal lawn.