These kids are putting their lives on hold, potentially risking their academic careers in the short term, to protest against genocide in a far-away land. They put some of us adults to shame.
These kids are putting their lives on hold, potentially risking their academic careers in the short term, to protest against genocide in a far-away land. They put some of us adults to shame.
Doubt it. I would rather say they are wasting their time and parents' money on issues which don't even impact them. Unintended consequences of privilege.
Well if my kid used their privilege in that way, I would be proud of them. Imagine a world where we only selfishly care about issues that impact us directly…oh wait.
Happy to be labeled selfish. At least I am not deluded that sitting 8.000 miles away, sitting in a tent, making pointless noises every few hours and annoying the fvck out of locals in that society, I am #winning somewhere else.
Unless it is about my family and my immediate society, don't give a fvck.
they might be police marksmen they are not army snipers
also, there are some circumstances where if you bunch up in a big crowd of "liberals" you might want a at least one police marksman to hand
also, also above wisdom is from Ryan McBeth, a pretty decent youtuber who investigates misinformation - he is (maybe was by now) doing a live stream in how he looks into these to see if they are true or misinfo - you might want to hop over to his youtube and watch (or his live stream library and watch back)
Serious question Sumo; what measures do you take to decide whether any particular source that you follow is unbiased? Confirmation bias is an easy trap to fall into and before you know it you're in an echo chamber nodding along to people saying what you already believe and want to believe. I've made conscious efforts to hear both sides of both the current conflict and the historical context but it's still hard to know whether content creators are biased.
I've said several times on here over the last few months that trust in media is one of the biggest victims in this whole sorry saga. Knowing which sources to trust and believe is harder than ever.
I use Ground News as my main news site - it doesn't report the news as such but aggregates other sites and gives you an assessment of whether it is being pushed by left, right or centre
I try to follow people who seem to know what they are talking about on youtube or twitter, people who come across as a bit more balanced than me. I kind of think anyone absolutely frothing and obsessed by one side (or who things there are 2 sides and only 2 sides to anything) are probably not who you want to follow.
I don't think you're ever going to get a perfect middle line.
Ryan McBeth appears to be a decent source, but he is a seriously weird dude. Kind of cool, but massively dorky with his whisky, cigars and silk dressing gown thing. Weird uncle vibez basically.
Also heh @ chambo perpetually shooting from the hip and missing.
They'll find something else to protest abot soon, not much to protest about there. It is sometimes known a FarmU, Rural, like Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Michigan State. Some academics, but mainly party schools
I try to follow people who seem to know what they are talking about on youtube or twitter, people who come across as a bit more balanced than me. I kind of think anyone absolutely frothing and obsessed by one side (or who things there are 2 sides and only 2 sides to anything) are probably not who you want to follow.
Admittedly I haven’t spent a lot of time searching RM’s back catalogue but from a brief review, he’s very aligned with Israel/US policy. Not a single video critical of anything that the US or Israel has done or said. He also seems to be buddies with “Destiny” who is now widely known to be an Israeli mouthpiece. I’m not yet convinced that RM is the impartial expert you seem to believe him to be.
Pez - I don’t claim to be immune to the same. I try to be conscious of it though.
I don’t follow any military experts because I’m less interested in the “how” of what’s happening and more interested in the “why”. So that’s more of a political expertise that’s required.
Ex-military tends to be heavily skewed towards Republican. Most ex-military want to spin their military experience into some kind of military-related career when they’re discharged so they need to be careful about what they say for fear of upsetting people who have a say in the award of contracts/career progression. The only military content producer who I can think of who doesn’t just two the government line is Greg Stoker.
But on political commentators, I find Mehdi Hassan, Jon Stewart, Daniel Levy, and Marc Lamont-Hill to be amongst the most measured and persuasive.
Admittedly I haven’t spent a lot of time searching RM’s back catalogue but from a brief review, he’s very aligned with Israel/US policy. Not a single video critical of anything that the US or Israel has done or said. He also seems to be buddies with “Destiny” who is now widely known to be an Israeli mouthpiece. I’m not yet convinced that RM is the impartial expert you seem to believe him to be.
as royalty mentions, he's a bit of a weird dude. he has a US military background and he works in cyber security type stuff.
He is the only person I have seen on youtube who has sat and gone through a video of IDF committing war crimes and explained why they have done that (conscript armies aren't as disciplined) and why these are war crimes (in this case looting - which a mouth piece would brush off as not important)
I suspect what you're seeing from a surface glance is that a lot of disinformation is being spread (possibly not created by) the pro palestine side and he's debunking it.
I suspect what you're seeing from a surface glance is that a lot of disinformation is being spread (possibly not created by) the pro palestine side and he's debunking it.
I’ll watch that and will try to keep an open mind for now but have you seen him debunking any Israeli disinformation or has he said that none exists?
I haven’t watched the documentary referred to in the article yet but it appears to be on point.
Back to RM though; you say you’re less concerned about what he says and more how he analyses stuff. But that too can be misleading if he’s so motivated. I mean, there’s always a “result” or conclusion to his analysis and that’s something that you take away (consciously or unconsciously). His method of analysis is like any other analysis of data sets. Depends on what data you choose to analyse, what assumptions/estimates you build in and also depends on the knowledge of the viewers. RM’s LinkedIn profile indicates that he’s had a post-military career in development of military software for drones. So first of all, he can easily blind most viewers with the science and present things in a way that supports preferred conclusions. Secondly, I think you have to look at the motives that he might have and the forces in play. Is someone in his position (dependent on military contracts/clearance) going to put out content that goes against the US military and government line?
The distinction between sniper & marksmen is pretty immaterial here though. It’s someone with a gun taking position over an otherwise peaceful protest.
I will admit though…..this is probably fairly normal in the US when it comes to major events and especially since the incident in Vegas at the concert. US authorities’ handling of these protests has still been v heavy handed and excessive.
Flimsy for someone who apparently still operates with an AOL dial up modem. For those who follow current affairs beyond the upcoming village fête, it’s pretty well known that there are protests on university campuses across the US and those protests are connected to Israel’s conduct in Gaza.
Never saw one what? Sniper/marksman? Good. I’d hope so. That’s the point…..this is unusual and newsworthy that it happened at several universities last week…..because of the protests.
Have you ever studied and lived at one of these places Gorlami ? I don"t know, doesn't sound like it to me. But everyone can read the media that suits them.
Yes, I was a US citizen until I renounced in 2013. I still have family there (Texas and Colorado) and I lived in the US for just shy of two years (Sep 2001 until June 2003). Admittedly though, I didn't go to university there.
I feel that we're talking at cross-purposes here Chambers so let me clarify and then you can say whether you disagree and if so, what part you disagree with.
Last week, there were well documented protests at multiple universities across the US (most notably Columbia in NY)
The purpose of the protests was for students to put pressure on the Universities to divest from companies profiting from Israel’s military action in Gaza
There were very few (if any) reported incidents of violence at these protests but there were allegations that they were antisemitic and creating a hostile environment for some Jews
In what I consider to be an excessive show of force, Police and National Guard were called to the universities to disperse the protesters but inevitably this also led to some arrests which are now being debated by both sides. Some say they are an infringement on first amendment rights, others say that there was legitimate cause (trespassing)
Specific to this thread, it was also reported that there were snipers/marksmen positioned on rooftops at some universities (UI being the one I noted but there were others)
Again, this seems excessive to me and an act designed to intimidate protesters but I can also accept that this is America (where I have lived, as above) and that guns are a more frequent sight there than in many other places.
So, are you pointing out that protests are not frequent at US universities or that the presence of snipers/marksmen is not unusual?
His method of analysis is like any other analysis of data sets. Depends on what data you choose to analyse, what assumptions/estimates you build in and also depends on the knowledge of the viewers. RM’s LinkedIn profile indicates that he’s had a post-military career in development of military software for drones. So first of all, he can easily blind most viewers with the science and present things in a way that supports preferred conclusions.
you do you, find someone who works for you. you asked how I try to avoid echo chambers and I have said what I try to do (definately a question as to whether it works and how would I know). If you don't like RM that's okay. What I would say in response to this though, is that if you watch his indiana markmen live stream, he starts off pretty skeptical about it but through the analysis (fairly simple too of geolocating the building, matching to where the protests are going on etc) but after digging into it confirms it is possible.
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Gorlami fella, isn’t there a US message board that you can participate in?
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From the photo I saw it looked like two blokes with a camera
Which could be press or could be police
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These kids are putting their lives on hold, potentially risking their academic careers in the short term, to protest against genocide in a far-away land. They put some of us adults to shame.
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These kids are putting their lives on hold, potentially risking their academic careers in the short term, to protest against genocide in a far-away land. They put some of us adults to shame.
Doubt it. I would rather say they are wasting their time and parents' money on issues which don't even impact them. Unintended consequences of privilege.
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Well if my kid used their privilege in that way, I would be proud of them. Imagine a world where we only selfishly care about issues that impact us directly…oh wait.
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Tbf if they are protesting against genocides in far away lands, they won't have any time to study
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Do you think there will be another Kent State like incident?
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Marshall fella. Possibly but no thanks
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Fishing for Gaza Floyd.
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Happy to be labeled selfish. At least I am not deluded that sitting 8.000 miles away, sitting in a tent, making pointless noises every few hours and annoying the fvck out of locals in that society, I am #winning somewhere else.
Unless it is about my family and my immediate society, don't give a fvck.
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they might be police marksmen they are not army snipers
also, there are some circumstances where if you bunch up in a big crowd of "liberals" you might want a at least one police marksman to hand
also, also above wisdom is from Ryan McBeth, a pretty decent youtuber who investigates misinformation - he is (maybe was by now) doing a live stream in how he looks into these to see if they are true or misinfo - you might want to hop over to his youtube and watch (or his live stream library and watch back)
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Serious question Sumo; what measures do you take to decide whether any particular source that you follow is unbiased? Confirmation bias is an easy trap to fall into and before you know it you're in an echo chamber nodding along to people saying what you already believe and want to believe. I've made conscious efforts to hear both sides of both the current conflict and the historical context but it's still hard to know whether content creators are biased.
I've said several times on here over the last few months that trust in media is one of the biggest victims in this whole sorry saga. Knowing which sources to trust and believe is harder than ever.
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I use Ground News as my main news site - it doesn't report the news as such but aggregates other sites and gives you an assessment of whether it is being pushed by left, right or centre
I try to follow people who seem to know what they are talking about on youtube or twitter, people who come across as a bit more balanced than me. I kind of think anyone absolutely frothing and obsessed by one side (or who things there are 2 sides and only 2 sides to anything) are probably not who you want to follow.
I don't think you're ever going to get a perfect middle line.
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I doubt whether Indiana University is a hotbed of muslim radicalism. Its in the middle of nowhere.
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Editor: Meanwhile, 33 Pro Palestinian Protesters were arrested at the university of Indiana Dunn Meadow protests
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Ryan McBeth appears to be a decent source, but he is a seriously weird dude. Kind of cool, but massively dorky with his whisky, cigars and silk dressing gown thing. Weird uncle vibez basically.
Also heh @ chambo perpetually shooting from the hip and missing.
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Does the arrest of 33 pro-Palestinian protesters make Indiana University a hotbed of Muslim radicalism?
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They'll find something else to protest abot soon, not much to protest about there. It is sometimes known a FarmU, Rural, like Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, Michigan State. Some academics, but mainly party schools
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Admittedly I haven’t spent a lot of time searching RM’s back catalogue but from a brief review, he’s very aligned with Israel/US policy. Not a single video critical of anything that the US or Israel has done or said. He also seems to be buddies with “Destiny” who is now widely known to be an Israeli mouthpiece. I’m not yet convinced that RM is the impartial expert you seem to believe him to be.
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so what would be your shortlist of "impartial" experts then?
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Pez - I don’t claim to be immune to the same. I try to be conscious of it though.
I don’t follow any military experts because I’m less interested in the “how” of what’s happening and more interested in the “why”. So that’s more of a political expertise that’s required.
Ex-military tends to be heavily skewed towards Republican. Most ex-military want to spin their military experience into some kind of military-related career when they’re discharged so they need to be careful about what they say for fear of upsetting people who have a say in the award of contracts/career progression. The only military content producer who I can think of who doesn’t just two the government line is Greg Stoker.
But on political commentators, I find Mehdi Hassan, Jon Stewart, Daniel Levy, and Marc Lamont-Hill to be amongst the most measured and persuasive.
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Gorlami26 Apr 24 16:34
Admittedly I haven’t spent a lot of time searching RM’s back catalogue but from a brief review, he’s very aligned with Israel/US policy. Not a single video critical of anything that the US or Israel has done or said. He also seems to be buddies with “Destiny” who is now widely known to be an Israeli mouthpiece. I’m not yet convinced that RM is the impartial expert you seem to believe him to be.
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as royalty mentions, he's a bit of a weird dude. he has a US military background and he works in cyber security type stuff.
He is the only person I have seen on youtube who has sat and gone through a video of IDF committing war crimes and explained why they have done that (conscript armies aren't as disciplined) and why these are war crimes (in this case looting - which a mouth piece would brush off as not important)
I suspect what you're seeing from a surface glance is that a lot of disinformation is being spread (possibly not created by) the pro palestine side and he's debunking it.
this is his stream on the sniper Youtube link
now, even if you don't like the guy you can use his methods to debunk bullshit (i.e. pro israel propagands bullshit or verify pro palestinian news)
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I’ll watch that and will try to keep an open mind for now but have you seen him debunking any Israeli disinformation or has he said that none exists?
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I haven't watched all his videos, I am less concerned about what he says and more how he analyses stuff
he covered this video of a purported israeli jet shooting down and iranian drone and explains why it is almost certainly bollocks
youtube short link
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A timely article in The Nation yesterday Sumo: https://www.thenation.com/article/world/occupation-of-the-american-mind-documentary/
I haven’t watched the documentary referred to in the article yet but it appears to be on point.
Back to RM though; you say you’re less concerned about what he says and more how he analyses stuff. But that too can be misleading if he’s so motivated. I mean, there’s always a “result” or conclusion to his analysis and that’s something that you take away (consciously or unconsciously). His method of analysis is like any other analysis of data sets. Depends on what data you choose to analyse, what assumptions/estimates you build in and also depends on the knowledge of the viewers. RM’s LinkedIn profile indicates that he’s had a post-military career in development of military software for drones. So first of all, he can easily blind most viewers with the science and present things in a way that supports preferred conclusions. Secondly, I think you have to look at the motives that he might have and the forces in play. Is someone in his position (dependent on military contracts/clearance) going to put out content that goes against the US military and government line?
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I think the OP refers to a story about a handful of police on rooftops with telescopes watching the (rather small) group of protestors.
As one student there said 'No big deal, they're there on every football Saturday. Way bigger crowds than this'.
Not snipers, but that won't stop Gorlami and others on here derailing virtually any thread to talk about Palestine / Gaza.
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🤣 I started the thread FFS
The distinction between sniper & marksmen is pretty immaterial here though. It’s someone with a gun taking position over an otherwise peaceful protest.
I will admit though…..this is probably fairly normal in the US when it comes to major events and especially since the incident in Vegas at the concert. US authorities’ handling of these protests has still been v heavy handed and excessive.
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You started it on a very flimsy premise as it turned out.
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Flimsy for someone who apparently still operates with an AOL dial up modem. For those who follow current affairs beyond the upcoming village fête, it’s pretty well known that there are protests on university campuses across the US and those protests are connected to Israel’s conduct in Gaza.
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I spent two years postgrad at a major US University, way bigger than Indiana, but not a million miles away and never saw one.
A couple of nutters waving placards for something or other maybe but they were part of the scenery. Ignored.
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Never saw one what? Sniper/marksman? Good. I’d hope so. That’s the point…..this is unusual and newsworthy that it happened at several universities last week…..because of the protests.
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Have you ever studied and lived at one of these places Gorlami ? I don"t know, doesn't sound like it to me. But everyone can read the media that suits them.
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Yes, I was a US citizen until I renounced in 2013. I still have family there (Texas and Colorado) and I lived in the US for just shy of two years (Sep 2001 until June 2003). Admittedly though, I didn't go to university there.
I feel that we're talking at cross-purposes here Chambers so let me clarify and then you can say whether you disagree and if so, what part you disagree with.
So, are you pointing out that protests are not frequent at US universities or that the presence of snipers/marksmen is not unusual?
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Forget it.
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It is now obvious to everyone that it was men with cameras, not sniper rifles, which were spotted.
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Gorlami27 Apr 24 06:12
you do you, find someone who works for you. you asked how I try to avoid echo chambers and I have said what I try to do (definately a question as to whether it works and how would I know). If you don't like RM that's okay. What I would say in response to this though, is that if you watch his indiana markmen live stream, he starts off pretty skeptical about it but through the analysis (fairly simple too of geolocating the building, matching to where the protests are going on etc) but after digging into it confirms it is possible.
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