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BBC advertises illegal behaviour

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cld404v6lkeo

More than 5,000 nail technicians across the UK are coming together to collectively raise their prices from Monday in what is being labelled "National Nail Price Increase Day”.

It’s really beneficial that we are all raising our prices the same day and you know no-one is going to undercut each other.

I cannot be bothered to report this to the Competition and Markets Authority, but seriously, how does a story like this get published without a journalist or editor thinking there might be an issue?

 

 

 

No, for pricing fixing there is no de minimis size.  And in any case the story says that this pricing fixing activity here involves "more than 5,000 nail technicians across the UK". There's also a reference to this company https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12895844 as being "the company behind the movement"

Doubtless these people will say that they were not aware of the law because ...

It's not price fixing though is it? They all set their own prices based on their need for profit and overhead costs. They all have a need to put their prices up but are worried about being the first mover. They're all putting their prices up by an amount that they decide, they're just doing on the same day. 

As long as they're not all agreeing to put their prices up to the same amount (or maybe even by the same amount) I don't see the problem. 

Turbolol @ middle aged middle class lawyer who “cannot be bothered to report [a load of min wage mail tech girls] to the CMA” like it’s a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to do absent lack of motivation to do it 🤣

Turbolol @ middle aged middle class lawyer who “cannot be bothered to report [a load of min wage mail tech girls] to the CMA” like it’s a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to do absent lack of motivation to do it

So it's okay for people to break the law if they're part of the chav class?

One of the reasons that productivity in the UK is declining and tax revenue cannot support the demands of the entitled populace is that there are far too many people doing low pay low productivity jobs like "nail technicians" rather than economically productive activities. 

Yes, it is illegal because these people are not employees, they're running their own businesses.  

TBH this sort of economic activity is just social parasitism.   Probably not VAT registered, not paying any national insurance, probably not paying any tax.  

No, I talk good common sense on the internet. That seems to be the misunderstanding here. 

Rare agree with risky tbh. This is hard working people ensuring they get somewhere close to a living wage. I actively support them and hope they succeed. Go after the real evaders of what should be the real tax take

I don't but do talk to the ladies I know about such things.

If we really want to make life better for nail technicians then smashing the gangs that force a lot of them to work in servitude would be a good starting point.

rob have you ever considered trying out for the Irish Olympic talking shite on the internet squad 

That’s got to be one of the most difficult squads to qualify for in world sport. Possibly only after the French football team and the Indian cricket team. 

Getting your nails done does NOT cost a fortune.

These nail bars with Vietnmese workers typiclly charge £15 for shape and pint and still less thn £20 for a manicure, in London. And only yesterday as I was in one I commented to the owner that I thought they were charging too little because I had realised they could not be meeting minimum wage….I am delighted this has been raised as an issue.

You can ofc spend more in a high class salon for a longer and more luxurious manicure, but if you just want a quick change of  colour then there are only these nail bars to go to.

The owner who disguised their smirk at the fact that you thought minimum wage is the only law they're breaking...

It's like driving past a hand car wash and trying to decide if the staff look like they've been trafficked and forced to work.

Is Rob going after the hairdressing business next? Because that works on the same model. Or does he simply not understand the first thing about how different businesses actually work? Has he heard of the gig economy?

You know, i can really tell Rob has never tried to paint nails in even one solid colour, because if he had he'd realise the level of skill and artistry that goes into a complex nail design. 

Oh but it must be for 'chavs' and not economically preductive, because, well, what? Because it's a part of the beauty industry most favoured by black and working class ladies? Rob Cannon, you are an ignorant eejit.

Oh, and if agroup of entrepreneurs collectively decide that they're going to price their products at a level where they at least make the equivalent of minimum wage, then good luck to them quite frankly.

Oh but it must be for 'chavs' and not economically preductive, because, well, what?

If the market will only pay people £7 an hour to do it then, no, it's not economically productive.  There are lots of things that are worthy but not economically productive.  But we'd all be better off if these people were in employment at the minimum wage (which is at least £11.44 an hour) rather than working for less.  Of course, if these people were in employment they would be liable for tax and national insurance ...

Oh, and if agroup of entrepreneurs collectively decide that they're going to price their products at a level where they at least make the equivalent of minimum wage, then good luck to them quite frankly.

You can say that, but under the law  in the UK it's illegal.  It's basic 101 competition law not just in the UK but in every other developed country.  I don't have either the time or the patience to explain why that's the case.  

The responses on this demonstrate again that so many of the natives in this country will whine and complain about the state of public services, etc. but happy endorse the culture of social parasitism that is dragging down UK living standards.  

Rob I could not care less what the law says, it is clearly not aimed at people like this.

 

If collective action on pricing means they can afford  to pay themselves the minimum wage and pay taxes etc surely that is a good thing?      What it will probably mean is demand drops off a bit, some will go under but the better ones will surivive making an ok living - isnt that what you would want to see?

Wow. 

 

Quite a rant there. 

 

Here are some tips for you. Firstly, if you want to talk about economics, itn helps if you actually know more than your favourite buzzwords.

 

Secondly service industries are perfectly normal and valid sectors, which every country has. (Whatnect, barbers are parasites because we can all cut our hair enough to wear a ponytail ?!)

Thirdly, talking about 'natives' makes you comeacross as, well, really racist?

 

Also, even in the event that this is a breach of competition law - and there is nothing that indicates  a cartel - no one else sees any public interest in pursuing it.

Oh ano beauty salong often undervalue their work tp a shocking degret in my experience, probably bevause they're used to dealing with this sort of attitude

 

there is nothing that indicates  a cartel

Absolute nonsense.  As Gorlami has already pointed out, there's the following direct quote:

and you know no-one is going to undercut each other.

And as for this:

service industries are perfectly normal and valid sectors, which every country has

way to change the subject.  The point isn't about service industries - the point is about these people who go on about how "hard-working" they are because they choose to work cash-in-hand for £7 per hour rather than taking minimum wage employment and paying tax and national insurance.  If people worked in service industries for minimum wage that would be fine. 

beauty salong often undervalue their work tp a shocking degret in my experience, probably bevause they're used to dealing with this sort of attitude

I don't know what "this sort of attitude is" or how it affects the pricing by beauty salons.  These people doing nails charge low because people won't pay more.  That's how the market works.  If businesses can be run so that they can provide a service while paying their employees national minimum wage then that is fine.   

Where I go to have my nails shellac'd is £30.  North West.  This is one of those areas where something is actually cheaper in London but probably due to the prevalence of Vietnamese "workers".

How on earth do you know that the average nail tech isn't paying income tax or national insurance? Or that they are cash in hand? 

Everyone increasing their prices at the same time isn't a cartel unless they are all incresing to the same price, for   whigh there does not seem to be much evidence.

 

The point i was adressing there was your - i am sorry to say it - rather strange idea that this is some sort ofeconomic  parasitism and that a group of self employed entrepreneurs somehow are not contributing properly? 

 

Don't really get the anger eother - are you annoyed that your mani is going to be marginally less cheap or something?!

i saw this story and thought "uh oh how do they not know"

 

and then i remembered that the school bursars all got together and did much the same. and they're presumably all professionals.  and that the boards of governors presumably included a good crop of accountants and lawyers.

 

 

a lot of businesses do undervalue their product

I subscribe to an app called livefootballonTV which liteeally does nothing except tell you what football is on TV this week in the U.K.

I used it at least every couple of days.

The price? £2.99 a year. I mean, I would easily pay five times that. I’d consider paying ten times.

Article now updated, CMA not going to investigate. 

I expect the Rob character is furious, he expected them to be stamping all over these women by now, not laughing at his email.

The BBC contacted the Competitions and Markets Authority, which responded on Monday saying it was not investigating the issue, but had written an open letter to nail businesses reminding them to comply with competition law.

Selective quoting from snowfoxberry there. 

Interestingly, the following has been reported in the media:

However, the organised price hike comes as UK company The Gel Bottle, one of the biggest suppliers in the UK, announced they were going to raise their prices between 11 and 15 per cent on April 8 - the same day as the price increase. 

Would be interesting to find out the history of what's going on here.

CMA open letter is here:  https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/661416662138738e3b031bba/CMA_open_letter_to_nail_technicians_pdfa.pdf

From media reports over the weekend, we understand that a campaign has been launched encouraging nail technicians to raise their prices today. In that context, we want to remind all businesses in this sector of their obligations to comply with competition law. In particular, we want to underline that businesses must set their prices independently and that competitors should not discuss or coordinate among themselves the timing or amount of any price increases (whether directly or through a trade body or other membership organisation). This ensures that customers get the benefit of competition and can shop around for a good deal, while fair dealing businesses benefit.

We have also been in contact with the organiser of the campaign to remind them of the need to comply with competition law. 

For the avoidance of doubt, the CMA can only reach a concluded view as to whether or not the law has been broken after a formal investigation which it has not conducted in this instance.

I wonder how snowfoxberry took from that statement that the CMA is "not going to investigate".  I only see it as saying that it has not investigated.

Epic pwnage by Rob of all the pretendy lawyers above who doubted that this is anti competitive behavior.

Newsflash - if you want to raise prices, do so. Just don’t to so collectively, because that’s a crime. Ok?

Let’s hope the CMA are going after Petrol Companies and vendors/manufacturers of branded sporting apparel , rather than these cottage industries.

Although like in the hand-wash car wash places, you would also hope that the  Gangmaster Taskforce took an interest in what is going on…

 

When I started Articles, there was definitely a cosy local cartel on conveyancing prices. 

Broke down in the late ‘80’s after some  local firms met with Estate Agents on a boozy Friday afternoon after completions to hand out the envelopes.

I reported it to the CMA yesterday. Collective wage negotiations by unions regarding employees are okay. I think i remember vaguely more details on this may be from the EU particularly as regards payments made to self employed zero hours workers though but I didn't bother to look it up yesterday as just left it to the CMA.

 

(On conveyancing and price fixing I once gave advice on whether it could be lawful to reintroduce the previously permitted conveyancing "scale fees" which had since been made illegal).

BBC have now added to their article  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cld404v6lkeo

 

"Responding to a social media debate that the drive to raise prices in the industry amounted to price fixing, external - when businesses collude to decide what price to charge for a product - Ms Guy told BBC 5 Live's Wake Up to Money programme on Monday it was more about education.

“There’s no set price that everybody will be amending their prices to," she said.

"I guess this is more an education piece around what are your current business costs and everybody’s will be different depending on whether these people work from home salons, whether they work in salons, mobile.

"So it’s just more around an educational piece of what are your business costs, please check them, please calculate them and then make sure that your prices are at least more than minimum wage because that’s important."

The BBC contacted the Competitions and Markets Authority, which responded on Monday saying it was not investigating the issue, but had written an open letter to nail businesses reminding them to comply with competition law.

It said businesses must set their prices independently and that competitors should not discuss or co-ordinate the timing or amount of any price increases."

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