My mate is at a city firm that's asking people to go into the office every day. She's looking to move to a firm with max 2 days a week in the office. Suggestions?
What Foal and Sucker said. My firm is saving close to a lion a year just on utilities and consumables whilst billing more so they are very happy with us at home part of the week.
No but as I've got aged parents living with me I'd be burning the heating anyway so doesn't make any difference. Have been able though to recover the costs like postage and these days stock up on paper and the like when I'm in the office.
You develop soft skills and build rapport and a sound working relationship with the Senior Partners when you're in the office. All these will stand you in good stead when it comes to bonus season and redundancy.
when people talk about people not building skills, they mean not building skills in the old way of working. Technology made working 5 days in the office obsolete a decade ago but it has taken Covid to make hybrid working a reality. We are never going back to the way it was before so you need to learn soft skills both in the office and appropriate to remote communication.
I can build a rapport and working relationship with an old fashioned telephone as that's mainly what we did back in the dark ages when I started work and also in firms with multiple offices and teams that work across different offices.
I also have good relationships with people I'd still only see once a month or so when we were in the office because they were on a different floor or the like. I still see them once a month or so even though I'm only in the office for part of the week.
LOL @ the "get in with the dinosaurs" basis for back to the office full time. Is this some tinpot joke shop? Nowhere normal says in 5 days now. Unlikely to get 2 off the bat but just find out where operates 3:5 and isn't run by dickheads.
People need to learn to project manage rather than expect to bark ad hoc instructions at people because they are in the same office, and supervise remotely. This is standard in most countries with several hub cities. Do you imagine people at Latham in LA are going "oh boohoo I wish all the NY office would come over here so I could see them"?
About 10% of the best BD people are needed in the office. Probably another 40% need to come in regularly to either meet and train others or provide project coordination using facilities not available in their house (e.g. more reliable comms, meeting space etc). The rest can WFH forever.
The duffers now started working when email wasn't a thing and you had to give a tiny tape to someone to get letters created. Everyone loves familiarity, and this lot are no different. However, current graduates will have spent lots of time communicating with friends through social media, video games etc. The shoddy state of conferencing tech in even the newest law firm offices show how little anyone at the top knows about anything tech wise.
My place’s policy is two days per week in the office. Let’s just say it’s pretty loosely implemented (eg I have been in the office 4 days since the beginning of Sept).
My current firm is full of team saners but there's no pressure at all to come in. Everyone can do whatever they want. I personally do 0-3 days a week depending on workload and mood.
I'm moving to a new firm next year where I'm told irrespective of any policies, in practice all the associates do 3 days a week.
Surprised there's anywhere mandating 5 days a week.
The only places I could believe might insist on this are Macs, S&M or Links if we are talking about real City firms. If it is Ballbag & Co above Polo Bar then more believable.
From discussions I've had with partners at other firms (plus what my own firm is doing), most of the mid-market City firms from, say, 15th rank (in terms of annual revenue) downwards will seriously consider decent candidates who want to work two days a week working in the office. Her agent can be upfront about it when sending her CV out.
It may occasionally put her behind equivalent candidates who are willing to come in more often for a few real estate departments but, as there aren't many candidates around (and even fewer good ones), it's worth doing as she won't waste time at interviews and finding out later that the employer is not aligned.
I'm getting a lot of CVs where two days office working is clearly stated on the front page.
We are interviewing candidates whose resumes we would not have considered 2 or 3 years ago. Hugely a candidate's market at the moment, including in commercial real estate.
I would suggest that if you want to have a London salary you should really be prepared to go to work. If you want a remote role then you should be on a regional salary.
From discussions I've had with partners at other firms (plus what my own firm is doing), most of the mid-market City firms from, say, 15th rank (in terms of annual revenue) downwards will seriously consider decent candidates who want to work two days a week working in the office. Her agent can be upfront about it when sending her CV out.
It may occasionally put her behind equivalent candidates who are willing to come in more often for a few real estate departments but, as there aren't many candidates around (and even fewer good ones), it's worth doing as she won't waste time at interviews and finding out later that the employer is not aligned.
I'm getting a lot of CVs where two days office working is clearly stated on the front page.
We are interviewing candidates whose resumes we would not have considered 2 or 3 years ago. Hugely a candidate's market at the moment, including in commercial real estate.
yes, also mid market firms are generally suffering a lot of departures and are crying out for good candidates. They know they can't compete on salary or quality of work with top firms so being more flexible on wfh can be a selling point.
Surely your salary should be based on the type and quality of work you do and what you bill rather than where you do it? If anything big firms that reduce their office space thanks to people working at home should be sharing the savings with their staff.
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She not looking to
sex up the offices five days per week then?
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No that's my gig
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Suggestion is she sees a doctor.
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Describe [etc]
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I don't know why people insist on working mostly from home. If I were a boss it would be back to normal, there is no reason why not to.
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‘If I were a boss it would be back to normal, there is no reason why not to’
apart from the massive overheads for employer and employee ofc
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Sadly for ebitda he will never get to be the boss. Luckily for everyone else.
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And the massively increased productivity from wfh
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And preventing my best people from going to competitors.
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suggest she becomes a cab driver or maybe gets a job in a charity shop
THIS IS LAW. THIS IS MOTHER, FVCKING. REAL.
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What Foal and Sucker said. My firm is saving close to a lion a year just on utilities and consumables whilst billing more so they are very happy with us at home part of the week.
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Sails as a matter of interest do they give you any contribution to your home heating costs when you WFH?
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Why wouldn’t people want to: “Grab that spare office down the hall at 18.30 for a quick catch up with the team.”?
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LB, what kind of work does your friend do?
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No but as I've got aged parents living with me I'd be burning the heating anyway so doesn't make any difference. Have been able though to recover the costs like postage and these days stock up on paper and the like when I'm in the office.
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You develop soft skills and build rapport and a sound working relationship with the Senior Partners when you're in the office. All these will stand you in good stead when it comes to bonus season and redundancy.
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when people talk about people not building skills, they mean not building skills in the old way of working. Technology made working 5 days in the office obsolete a decade ago but it has taken Covid to make hybrid working a reality. We are never going back to the way it was before so you need to learn soft skills both in the office and appropriate to remote communication.
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I can build a rapport and working relationship with an old fashioned telephone as that's mainly what we did back in the dark ages when I started work and also in firms with multiple offices and teams that work across different offices.
I also have good relationships with people I'd still only see once a month or so when we were in the office because they were on a different floor or the like. I still see them once a month or so even though I'm only in the office for part of the week.
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So much Kool-Aid on these threads, even now. You don’t need to be physically proximate to old men to learn soft skills or anything else.
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You develop soft skills and build rapport and a sound working relationship with the Senior Partners when you're in the office.
Nah, you want to avoid them like the plague (real plague, not covid). Otherwise they might dump some work on you.
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most places MC and such, are 3 days but if you are good and have a chilled boss you can pretty much do as you please.
my inhouse gig (coz i get on with my business well and dont have face to face meetings anyway because i cover globally) i go in as and when i please.
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LOL @ the "get in with the dinosaurs" basis for back to the office full time. Is this some tinpot joke shop? Nowhere normal says in 5 days now. Unlikely to get 2 off the bat but just find out where operates 3:5 and isn't run by dickheads.
People need to learn to project manage rather than expect to bark ad hoc instructions at people because they are in the same office, and supervise remotely. This is standard in most countries with several hub cities. Do you imagine people at Latham in LA are going "oh boohoo I wish all the NY office would come over here so I could see them"?
About 10% of the best BD people are needed in the office. Probably another 40% need to come in regularly to either meet and train others or provide project coordination using facilities not available in their house (e.g. more reliable comms, meeting space etc). The rest can WFH forever.
The duffers now started working when email wasn't a thing and you had to give a tiny tape to someone to get letters created. Everyone loves familiarity, and this lot are no different. However, current graduates will have spent lots of time communicating with friends through social media, video games etc. The shoddy state of conferencing tech in even the newest law firm offices show how little anyone at the top knows about anything tech wise.
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My place’s policy is two days per week in the office. Let’s just say it’s pretty loosely implemented (eg I have been in the office 4 days since the beginning of Sept).
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EBITDA looking like an outlier here. Is he ever right about anything other than pret menus?
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bump because i am actually interested in the answer to my 0941 yesterday...
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My current firm is full of team saners but there's no pressure at all to come in. Everyone can do whatever they want. I personally do 0-3 days a week depending on workload and mood.
I'm moving to a new firm next year where I'm told irrespective of any policies, in practice all the associates do 3 days a week.
Surprised there's anywhere mandating 5 days a week.
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The only places I could believe might insist on this are Macs, S&M or Links if we are talking about real City firms. If it is Ballbag & Co above Polo Bar then more believable.
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TB - yes, of course, that too.
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Lawperson - she's in commercial real estate (same as me)
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Lol - must be rather conflicted on this question then, no?
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From discussions I've had with partners at other firms (plus what my own firm is doing), most of the mid-market City firms from, say, 15th rank (in terms of annual revenue) downwards will seriously consider decent candidates who want to work two days a week working in the office. Her agent can be upfront about it when sending her CV out.
It may occasionally put her behind equivalent candidates who are willing to come in more often for a few real estate departments but, as there aren't many candidates around (and even fewer good ones), it's worth doing as she won't waste time at interviews and finding out later that the employer is not aligned.
I'm getting a lot of CVs where two days office working is clearly stated on the front page.
We are interviewing candidates whose resumes we would not have considered 2 or 3 years ago. Hugely a candidate's market at the moment, including in commercial real estate.
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Does your mate also want to have a London salary?
I would suggest that if you want to have a London salary you should really be prepared to go to work. If you want a remote role then you should be on a regional salary.
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Err why? That makes absolutely no sense at all.
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Member03 Dec 21 20:08
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From discussions I've had with partners at other firms (plus what my own firm is doing), most of the mid-market City firms from, say, 15th rank (in terms of annual revenue) downwards will seriously consider decent candidates who want to work two days a week working in the office. Her agent can be upfront about it when sending her CV out.
It may occasionally put her behind equivalent candidates who are willing to come in more often for a few real estate departments but, as there aren't many candidates around (and even fewer good ones), it's worth doing as she won't waste time at interviews and finding out later that the employer is not aligned.
I'm getting a lot of CVs where two days office working is clearly stated on the front page.
We are interviewing candidates whose resumes we would not have considered 2 or 3 years ago. Hugely a candidate's market at the moment, including in commercial real estate.
yes, also mid market firms are generally suffering a lot of departures and are crying out for good candidates. They know they can't compete on salary or quality of work with top firms so being more flexible on wfh can be a selling point.
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Surely your salary should be based on the type and quality of work you do and what you bill rather than where you do it? If anything big firms that reduce their office space thanks to people working at home should be sharing the savings with their staff.
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