Wife is homesick as f*ck. Australia has restricted outward travel since March last year and at present there is no sign of those restrictions being lifted. We haven't seen our families in 2 years and that's making it much harder.
I also moved back here due to a relationship, which then ended very shortly afterwards. That probably won’t happen to you though as most people are not as cursed as me.
The UK is good for education (provided you get into the right school or university), for being retired and for being wealthy. Ensure you tick the appropriate box. Otherwise it’s gashville for you.
Seriously. Don’t bother. If moving to London certainly don’t bother. The U.K. is crumbling. Education is a joke, healthcare system creaking badly, violent crime is up in the big cities. To sweeten the deal, taxes on people are actually productive are about to go up to ensure Stacey can continue to have all her needs met, Bogdan and his mates can use our GP and Cecil can pay fook all in tax and get loads of freebies despite being sat on a couple of million quid in properties and a nice final salary pension.
Go to the Channel Islands or Cayman or somewhere if you can. Some are basically British but without all the problems.
Nice temperate summer weather by Australian standards. No weird plagues of rodents or arachnids when it rains heavily. No having to watch kids every second they're in the garden in case they find something super poisonous and bitey. Less chance of being abducted by and Outback nutter if you break down.
I have the same problem re homesickness for family but in the other direction. However, moving back to Oz permanently as a solution would be using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
If you come back you will end up divorced anyway, somewhat negating the point of moving back, because you will resent the fact that your wife made you move to live
(a) in a house which is a crumbling s***hole which nevertheless costs so much that you have a mortgage that you will have to work to the age of 70 to pay off whilst leaving you with a commute which means you will never see your wife anyway;
(b) in a country which has become so polarised and violent in its discourse that someone will stab you if you talk about the weather in a way that they disagree with;
(c) with tax rates on earned income so high that it is impossible ever to earn enough money on which comfortably to retire;
(d) to carry on a profession that has become massively meaner (in all senses) and more insecure than it was when you last worked in it here.
I probably wasted too much time trying to pursue Plan A - Singapore. Now we have a wee baby things will be delayed a little bit, but we just have to get out of this country which has seemingly decided to just give up and slowly die.
Open to suggestions for a Plan B. Hong Kong was Plan A- but doesn't look like a viable long-term option anymore.
Rather depends on what kind of law you work in. I've managed to find a gig which is just like being back in 1999 in many respects but with more technology to work with. There are still nice sane reasonable people to work with if you avoid the places which are all about having three kids at private school, a house in Cornwall and a villa in France and keeping up with the other partners.
A cascade of negativity on here. Oh well, I like living here in Surrey. I have lived previously in the US, Cayman and Jersey and all have their good points.
Wild card: if work allows, move to the South Devon or Dorset coast instead. You're in the UK, so only a couple of hours' drive from her family, but you will be insulated for longer from the crumbling of the fabric of the UK (lower crime rates, better community cohesion, less sense of every public service being under strain) and you will miss Oz less. Swim in the sea every day in the summer, the air will be cool enough to sleep at night, wife's family will be very keen to come and visit...
I just think the U.K. is in long term decline. We have a very poor quality government, a bizarrely polarised media, expensive education at all levels, poor quality health service, and above all a “hostile” country in which to live with endless rules and regulations enforced by various wannabe policemen.
I'm entirely happy here in the UK but I made what turns out to be an eminently sensible decision not to bother with kids which removes a vast amount of stress and expense from life.
There's so much about living in Australia that I don't like but my life is still immeasurably better here than it would be in the UK, even if I do get paid a fair bit less.
Bigger house, fun car, nice compact city, easy access o incredible countryside, easy access to swimming beach, outstanding seafood, fantastic beer scene, relatively good weather.
The UK is generally no different to anywhere else. There are quite a few people on here who like hating on it for politics reasons. There are some places that I might prefer to be. Australia deffo isn't one of them.
I just think the U.K. is in long term decline. We have a very poor quality government, a bizarrely polarised media, expensive education at all levels, poor quality health service, and above all a “hostile” country in which to live with endless rules and regulations enforced by various wannabe policemen.
A very important point. Tory, Labour doesn't that much as neither have the vision or the competence to solve our problems which I fear are now terminal.
Chimp superficially they are of course different but often deep down all western countries suffer from the same structural problems of under-resourced public services, arguments about tax rates, ageing populations and so on and so forth.
I doubt there is that much difference to quality of life, for an average relatively well-to-do professional, between various English-speaking developed countries such as USA/UK/CAN/NZ/AUS
There will be some minor cultural differences and climate will vary. But overall, especially on income/quality of life I suspect you get more or less the same once you factor in taxes/healthcare/education/property prices etc.
The real difference is living somewhere (a) non-English-speaking, which means you get a realistic possibility to learn a different language and assimilate into a much more different culture; or (b) living in a low tax jurisdiction, which means tax savings.
I was assuming your realistic choices of where to live would be made up of modern liberal democratic countries. Globalisation means that non-trivial differences between them have been whittled down considerably. Obviously if you choose to live in Yemen or Mali, your experience may differ more wildly.
Can't be bothered to read through what, I presume, is negative comment after negative comment, but wanted to cast my vote for the "the UK is still pretty fvcking amazing in so very many ways, still one of the absolute best places in the world to live" camp.
wot cru said- it’s become very english amongst a certain set to slag off england but, despite all the shit referred to above, it’s still better than anywhere else in most respects. australia will be a virtual colony of china within a few years and it’s already, with a few exceptions, largely populated by barbarian philistines.
UK may be stumbling, but at some stage Australia will have to start living in a low-carbon world and it's economy will take a big hit. You may well be selling now near the top of the market. If you can afford to live in Surrey and eventually send the kids to private school, then it'll probably be just fine.
QOL - what is this made up of? beaches (shark infested sea), weather (boring and too hot), poisonous insects and snakes, bigger house in utterly dullsville’burbs, or….? it’s bogan country really.
Chimp get your CCT and get back there. You’ll be on a very strong position for private work since you’re U.K. qualified so you can do the outsourced overnight work from the U.K. while on the beach.
They keep advertising in my sector over there (I’ve posted a few jobs and according to RoF the pay is good). I’ll certainly be considering it.
QOL - what is this made up of? beaches (shark infested sea), weather (boring and too hot), poisonous insects and snakes, bigger house in utterly dullsville’burbs, or….? it’s bogan country really.
Well, I thought my large beachside flat with nightly sunset views over the ocean was pretty nice but depends what you like.
Crypto. I can confirm Germany and the Germans are significantly different. I am more than happy to stay in Germany, am not sure where I will go next. I do know that the UK is not on my list and moving back would fill me with dread.
I am really only speaking for Dusseldorf. It’s a regional city, small by Uk standards .5M . It’s very cultural and cosmopolitan. The locals are very welcoming.
Food is a bit well „German“ but one can’t have it all.
T pot dusseldorf does have a lot of Japanese restaurants.
I've lived a number of places. A lot on Rof love to slate the UK on the belief that the grass is always greener elsewhere. Many have not lived in that elsewhere. My experience is that the UK is pretty good. Not better or worse than say Germany but different. Everywhere including Germany, France and Netherlands have their issues and crap governments.
Yes, Düsseldorf claims to have the largest Japanese population outside of Japan. Not sure how true it is. Like having the longest bar in Europe!! Japan Tag is a Festival in Düsseldorf that is something else!!
How many people do you know with a detached house in a good area, children in decent schools, two nice cars, holidays and money in the bank who rag on the UK?
This sceptred isle eh Lyds? Cream teas on the verandah? Glyndebourne is it yes? Jumpers for goalposts hmm?
The UK is alright...it still has its merits. I liked living in Australia but the cost and relative toxicity of its people was ultimately a bit draining. These days I dream of a breezy expat life in 🇵🇹
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Where you moving back from?
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Australia, which I know isn't everyone's idea of paradise but assume for the purposes of this exercise that I like it here.
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Where in the UK are you moving back too?
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Would not bother.
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probably surrey (within the m25), to be close to my wife's family
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I moved back from Australia last year after 2.5 years and it was a huge mistake tbh
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Chimp, I am dreading the same but it's somewhat out of my hands.
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We’re doing Argentina next. Might stay for ever.
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Definitely would not recommend. It's going to be a high tax, high fascism hellhole for a long time.
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Erk.
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Hopefully you earn a big wedge which softens any blow.
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Yeah, would not bother.
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this is a move in the wrong direction tbf
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Don’t do it
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I’m hoping to go back in the next few years. This country is fvcking balls.
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I’m desperate to leave, but due to aging parents, cannot.
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Come back once fully funded. Otherwise defer.
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A rare hard agree with my simian friend here. Why would you do this?
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Wife is homesick as f*ck. Australia has restricted outward travel since March last year and at present there is no sign of those restrictions being lifted. We haven't seen our families in 2 years and that's making it much harder.
This thread is not exactly encouraging.
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I also moved back here due to a relationship, which then ended very shortly afterwards. That probably won’t happen to you though as most people are not as cursed as me.
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The UK is good for education (provided you get into the right school or university), for being retired and for being wealthy. Ensure you tick the appropriate box. Otherwise it’s gashville for you.
#gashlife
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It is absolutely fine. Ignore some comments above, they'd probably find fault anywhere.
Your proposed location sounds good too. Can be pricey, but I assume you have accumulated a fair amount by now.
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Seriously. Don’t bother. If moving to London certainly don’t bother. The U.K. is crumbling. Education is a joke, healthcare system creaking badly, violent crime is up in the big cities. To sweeten the deal, taxes on people are actually productive are about to go up to ensure Stacey can continue to have all her needs met, Bogdan and his mates can use our GP and Cecil can pay fook all in tax and get loads of freebies despite being sat on a couple of million quid in properties and a nice final salary pension.
Go to the Channel Islands or Cayman or somewhere if you can. Some are basically British but without all the problems.
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Can you not send the Mrs back for 6 months while you stay in Oz? Chances are she’ll change her mind by then.
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Nice temperate summer weather by Australian standards. No weird plagues of rodents or arachnids when it rains heavily. No having to watch kids every second they're in the garden in case they find something super poisonous and bitey. Less chance of being abducted by and Outback nutter if you break down.
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I have the same problem re homesickness for family but in the other direction. However, moving back to Oz permanently as a solution would be using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
Did she like Oz before the restrictions?
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move back for a bit if you like but don't sell your oz property
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She probably wouldn't be able to get back in if she's not a citizen Merkz.
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Mercx, we have 2 young kids so not really an option.
Orwell, yes we both love Australia but she has struggled with being away from her family for a long time.
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Please tell her from someone in the same boat as me - hold tight. This will pass.
Also, this might sound trivial, but get Facebook Portal. It has made an enormous difference to us - it's almost like being in the room with each other
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I miss my family in the US but I wouldn’t move back … easier to get in and out of than Oz though.
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It isn't if you're not a citizen Merkz, and even then it is difficult. I can't get back to for at least another 6 months now.
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Strongly recommend Merkx's suggestion.
If you come back you will end up divorced anyway, somewhat negating the point of moving back, because you will resent the fact that your wife made you move to live
(a) in a house which is a crumbling s***hole which nevertheless costs so much that you have a mortgage that you will have to work to the age of 70 to pay off whilst leaving you with a commute which means you will never see your wife anyway;
(b) in a country which has become so polarised and violent in its discourse that someone will stab you if you talk about the weather in a way that they disagree with;
(c) with tax rates on earned income so high that it is impossible ever to earn enough money on which comfortably to retire;
(d) to carry on a profession that has become massively meaner (in all senses) and more insecure than it was when you last worked in it here.
You would be INSANE to come back here.
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What is it about moving back to nazi plague island that concerns you?
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What survived said.
I probably wasted too much time trying to pursue Plan A - Singapore. Now we have a wee baby things will be delayed a little bit, but we just have to get out of this country which has seemingly decided to just give up and slowly die.
Open to suggestions for a Plan B. Hong Kong was Plan A- but doesn't look like a viable long-term option anymore.
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Rather depends on what kind of law you work in. I've managed to find a gig which is just like being back in 1999 in many respects but with more technology to work with. There are still nice sane reasonable people to work with if you avoid the places which are all about having three kids at private school, a house in Cornwall and a villa in France and keeping up with the other partners.
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On the plus side no giant spiders, snakes or wallabies.
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or australians
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It isn't if you're not a citizen Merkz, and even then it is difficult. I can't get back to for at least another 6 months now.
——-
to the US - which is where I was referring to? it’s easy if you are citizen. buy ticket, pay for pcr test, test negative, travel
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Never seen such unanimous aversion.
What merkz said. If she can't come for 6 months, try the period when kids are on holidays.
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survived's post is not that apt
house prices and the cost of living generally in Australia is higher than here, even than London
you're more likely to be able to save money as a lawyer in London that Sydney/Melbourne
and politics in Australia is at least as polarised and rather more toxic
still, Australia is on the up and UK is on the down
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House prices aside the cost of living is less than the UK, taxes lower and salaries outside of magic circle seem to be the same or better.
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Yeah, I don’t think this is true really. Depends where you are.
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From what I've read about Sydney real estate it's insane there.
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no doubt house prices in Sydney are less affordable than London. No doubt about that at all.
Food etc and cleaning and gardening and all that sort of stuff more expensive in Australia.
I'll give you education is more expensive in the UK. Also that comparisons of salaries/income depend upon where you are in the market.
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Are private schools a must in Australia?
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Crypto, no but it's almost universal among professionals to send children to private high schools
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A cascade of negativity on here. Oh well, I like living here in Surrey. I have lived previously in the US, Cayman and Jersey and all have their good points.
But they weren't home.
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Wild card: if work allows, move to the South Devon or Dorset coast instead. You're in the UK, so only a couple of hours' drive from her family, but you will be insulated for longer from the crumbling of the fabric of the UK (lower crime rates, better community cohesion, less sense of every public service being under strain) and you will miss Oz less. Swim in the sea every day in the summer, the air will be cool enough to sleep at night, wife's family will be very keen to come and visit...
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Ok so similar to the U.K. school wise, I guess.
I just think the U.K. is in long term decline. We have a very poor quality government, a bizarrely polarised media, expensive education at all levels, poor quality health service, and above all a “hostile” country in which to live with endless rules and regulations enforced by various wannabe policemen.
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where did you go to school is an even more common leitmotif in middle class Australian discourse than here
whereas where did you go to uni is comparatively irrelevant
quite odd
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I'm entirely happy here in the UK but I made what turns out to be an eminently sensible decision not to bother with kids which removes a vast amount of stress and expense from life.
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Yeah, this definitely is true from what I observed.
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There's so much about living in Australia that I don't like but my life is still immeasurably better here than it would be in the UK, even if I do get paid a fair bit less.
Bigger house, fun car, nice compact city, easy access o incredible countryside, easy access to swimming beach, outstanding seafood, fantastic beer scene, relatively good weather.
Shit pubs though.
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So yeah, I wouldn't do it if I were you.
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The UK is generally no different to anywhere else. There are quite a few people on here who like hating on it for politics reasons. There are some places that I might prefer to be. Australia deffo isn't one of them.
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What an odd comment. Most places are different to other places.
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A very important point. Tory, Labour doesn't that much as neither have the vision or the competence to solve our problems which I fear are now terminal.
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Chimp superficially they are of course different but often deep down all western countries suffer from the same structural problems of under-resourced public services, arguments about tax rates, ageing populations and so on and so forth.
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I doubt there is that much difference to quality of life, for an average relatively well-to-do professional, between various English-speaking developed countries such as USA/UK/CAN/NZ/AUS
There will be some minor cultural differences and climate will vary. But overall, especially on income/quality of life I suspect you get more or less the same once you factor in taxes/healthcare/education/property prices etc.
The real difference is living somewhere (a) non-English-speaking, which means you get a realistic possibility to learn a different language and assimilate into a much more different culture; or (b) living in a low tax jurisdiction, which means tax savings.
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I increasingly feel like a complete mug for not running off to somewhere with very low or zero income tax.
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I was assuming your realistic choices of where to live would be made up of modern liberal democratic countries. Globalisation means that non-trivial differences between them have been whittled down considerably. Obviously if you choose to live in Yemen or Mali, your experience may differ more wildly.
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Can't be bothered to read through what, I presume, is negative comment after negative comment, but wanted to cast my vote for the "the UK is still pretty fvcking amazing in so very many ways, still one of the absolute best places in the world to live" camp.
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My view is probably skewed a little by the fact that Australian doctors in particular absolutely spank UK doctors in terms of earnings and QOL.
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wot cru said- it’s become very english amongst a certain set to slag off england but, despite all the shit referred to above, it’s still better than anywhere else in most respects. australia will be a virtual colony of china within a few years and it’s already, with a few exceptions, largely populated by barbarian philistines.
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UK may be stumbling, but at some stage Australia will have to start living in a low-carbon world and it's economy will take a big hit. You may well be selling now near the top of the market. If you can afford to live in Surrey and eventually send the kids to private school, then it'll probably be just fine.
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What cru said
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QOL - what is this made up of? beaches (shark infested sea), weather (boring and too hot), poisonous insects and snakes, bigger house in utterly dullsville’burbs, or….? it’s bogan country really.
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Chimp get your CCT and get back there. You’ll be on a very strong position for private work since you’re U.K. qualified so you can do the outsourced overnight work from the U.K. while on the beach.
They keep advertising in my sector over there (I’ve posted a few jobs and according to RoF the pay is good). I’ll certainly be considering it.
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Is the U.K. significantly different from France or Germany? Probably not.
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Well, I thought my large beachside flat with nightly sunset views over the ocean was pretty nice but depends what you like.
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Most Australian city dwellers will never really have to worry about “poisonous insects and snakes”. Way overblown by Brits.
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Crypto - UK is remarkably quite similar to Germany in so many ways.
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Crypto. I can confirm Germany and the Germans are significantly different. I am more than happy to stay in Germany, am not sure where I will go next. I do know that the UK is not on my list and moving back would fill me with dread.
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ahh the north south divide, Pot
I was speaking from my experience in the North
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I am really only speaking for Dusseldorf. It’s a regional city, small by Uk standards .5M . It’s very cultural and cosmopolitan. The locals are very welcoming.
Food is a bit well „German“ but one can’t have it all.
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Wot Cru said. I like living in the UK. Have Australian friends who prefer it here too due to tall poppy syndrome in Aus.
It's been a crap couple of years and the government is useful, but London is still a world city and there are few limits here.
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*useless not useful..!
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True. Food is remarkably monotonous. Not hard to understand when ketchup is counted as "spicing it up".
Even the "second biggest city", Hamburg, feels like only a smidge bigger than Slough with the sleepy feel of the deepest Surrey.
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Why do you think they come over here?
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I think most Australians come to the UK for experience and then go back.
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T pot dusseldorf does have a lot of Japanese restaurants.
I've lived a number of places. A lot on Rof love to slate the UK on the belief that the grass is always greener elsewhere. Many have not lived in that elsewhere. My experience is that the UK is pretty good. Not better or worse than say Germany but different. Everywhere including Germany, France and Netherlands have their issues and crap governments.
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Yes, Düsseldorf claims to have the largest Japanese population outside of Japan. Not sure how true it is. Like having the longest bar in Europe!! Japan Tag is a Festival in Düsseldorf that is something else!!
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How many people do you know with a detached house in a good area, children in decent schools, two nice cars, holidays and money in the bank who rag on the UK?
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T pot also I live about an hour drive from dusseldorf. We should do lunch sometime
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Yes that would good.Düsseldorf Rof drinks would be a first. That would give me London, DXB and Düsseldorf!!
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Pot - did we do drinks in dxb?
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ftaod I like living here but I’m not in London, don’t do aspirational middle class shite and am semi-retired and relatively well off
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The UK is the best nation on the planet.
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Ooh, the "UK FTW" team is building up surprisingly healthy numbers!
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so far:
Lydia, Chambo (expected as the two are RoF couple), Cru and Linda.
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Ahem
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ahem...indeed. Soz mole5
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This sceptred isle eh Lyds? Cream teas on the verandah? Glyndebourne is it yes? Jumpers for goalposts hmm?
The UK is alright...it still has its merits. I liked living in Australia but the cost and relative toxicity of its people was ultimately a bit draining. These days I dream of a breezy expat life in 🇵🇹
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No worries Coffers, all more august posters than me!
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On the one hand: received wisdom on RoF is that only fools and also-rans leave the City to go pat.
On the other: same crowd pleading above for a pat to stay away on pain of how shit the UK is.
Chaotic.
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but a fellow fly on the wall mustn't miss another...
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For avoidance of doubt Coffers, Lydia and I are not a RoF couple. As you well know.
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Singapore and Hong Kong with their live-in nannies for normal professional couples and virtually crime-free societies say hi.
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This afternoon England is looking mighty lush from where I'm sitting.
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