Why do people go weird when they have kids?

I mean they suddenly think they've become the centre of the universe and they've done society some sort of great deed.

You've successfully bred. It's not difficult and there are too many people around anyway. Get a sense of perspective.

Not all of them, but an awful lot of them. I've had several instances where I've been screamed at by parents with "don't you see I have a child!!" when I haven't been able to get out of their path, despite very obviously having mobility issues.

Before I attract the inevitable anti-childfree nutjobs on here, I have several m7s with kids who have also noted how self-important some can get.

I think it's often an externalisation of the kind of person they were before. So, if they were thoughtful they will still consider others but if they were self-centred it's like the universe has finally validated their "I come first in all circumstances" mentality.

One thing is that some people do seem to instantly forget how boring and grimy they found children before they had their own. Do I want to hold your baby who just shat in his nappy for half an hour? No thanks. I still don't like em and this is your hobby, m8! I don't want to glue your model aeroplanes together either.

The majority of my close friends are sans children and those that are parents are pragmatic AF and don’t act like total loons about it. So, pick and choose! 

Amongst many other reasons as to why I am not having children, I am intrinsically selfish.  If I go out for supper with friends, and one suggests that they have to bring their children because they don't have/cannot afford a babysitter, I don't go.  The entire conversation and atmosphere of the evening is different when children are involved and I don't want to waste my time on that basis.  I would much rather do something else.  And most parents don't understand (are probably blind to) the impact it has.

Probably because it's actually quite a big deal having kids, and like everything important in life it affects some people more or in different ways than others.  

Goff has a point. in the last couple of years my friends have all decided to have children, they are mostly incredible smug, and condescending of others who have decided not to have kids.

Whats interesting is some have been pressured in to it, nothwithstanding the relationship was fooked years ago, some had them for no good reason " as it was the thing to do", and some it was an accident. A couple of them whose relationship is tenuous to say the least planned to have a kid,  to test the relationship. When that didn't work they planned another to test the relationship again. Utter madness, and a form of child abuse really. Apart from one couple, I expect all of the relationships to have irretrivably broken down within 12-24 months tops, with the guy(s) moving back home into their parents, bitter and skint and broken

A lot of people are self centered arseholes. A lot of people gave children. Consequently a lot of people are self centered arseholes with children. 

Not sure there’s cause and effect though, just dickheads being dickheads in a different way.

Just to explain my brother has recently had his first kid well into his 40s. I wouldn't say we are very close, but we do generally get on well. As an example we have been going to the Lords' test match(es) every summer together for years. This year I happened to mention about sorting out the tickets as usual and he responded that he couldn't go anymore because of his new baby with a tone suggesting that he was surprised I hadn't worked out that he had more important things to do with his life now. WTF?

its a long time since this has fooked me off so any of the following might apply.

a) people calm down as the kids get older (my youngest is 5)

b) i managed to remove myself from these kind of twot0fooks

c) i have given off sufficiently anti maternal vibes for a sufficient number of years that people no longer attempt to engage with me about children*

d) its not as bad where i live as it is in other parts of england

e) i have no friends left

 

on balance, i suspect it is (b) + (c) = (e)

*b/c lets fact it, its not very fooking interesting is it - we all have kids, we all raise them, i dont giive one single fook how you think it should be done, or what you think about what I am doing, so lets talk about something more interesting or not at all

Well he shouldn’t have taken a tone with you, but yes when you have little kids it’s harder to go to all day sports events because it leaves your partner doing all the looking after.  Expect more of the same for at least 10 years.  

Who would want to bring a kid into the world that now exists anyway. Doing the kid thing properely today, so as to shield them from the BS and negatives that exist costs money and lots of it. Two of my friends had kids back to back almost. They were short of cash before, and now they have two kids to look after ( both in flats). How is that a good idea. Very inconsiderate in my view. Raising kids nowadays , can not be done properly without lots of time and/or money.

a relative recently had her first baby at the age of 39 and honestly you would think she was running an entire orphanage the way she carries on

if her partner is working she is effectively unable to leave the house

I mean I am sure there are hormones at play that take things beyond the merely practical but Jeezo

Rhamnousia11 May 22 10:36

Reply | 

Report

Blergggg

A thing I hate is couples who act like it's a giant undertaking requiring both of them to be present at all times 

 

You know that's not what I'm saying.

I wasn't answering u, Sorry, but tbh it does sound a bit like you fall into this category

I mean sometimes maybe the real reason is "tbh I am enjoying just spending time with my family, fook eevryone else they bore me" which is fair enough (albeit a bit hurtful) but let's not pretend that watching your own kid alone for one afternoon is some unbearable hardship

Geoff there is probably a good reason that your brother isn’t going to the test match. Maybe his wife has post partum depression or can’t be left alone - bad shit happens in life and not everyone publicises it.

Thats not my experience.  They do however tend to think their children are the centre of the universe, which is of course partly hard wired but also seems to have increased in intensity the last 20-30 years quite dramatically.  Parents have always loved their kids of course, but certainly did not revolve their lives around them to quite the degree that happens today.  I have m7s with teenagers who still spend all weekend essentially doing stuff for them.   Over the age of about ten,  apart from occasional treat we either tagged along with what our parents were doing or did our own thing.  We got loved fed clothed and housed but our parents lives did not revolve around us.

My youngest is three and I'm just getting to the stage where I can vaguely DO STUFF, provided it's within school hours anyway.

Getting an afternoon to go drink and watch cricket occasionally would not be out of the question now, but it would be a major burden on my wife and is the kind of thing that needs to be handled sensitively, done only occasionally, and reciprocated.

I would like to think if his wife had depression he would tell me about it. He's my brother ffs.

There is no indication whatsoever that this might be the case.

"Parents have always loved their kids of course, but certainly did not revolve their lives around them to quite the degree that happens today. "

classic old fart statement

True dat Guy. 
 

I suspect that there’s an overlap between these types of parents and couples who announce “we are pregnant” - I mean that should be a capital offence really. 

I don't imagine quite as many parents pack their children off to boarding school at age 7 these days with their little trunks and tuckboxes. Happy times in dorm 3.     

Geoff, is your brother working and his wife/ partner on maternity leave?  If so she is at home 5 days a week on her own with a small baby and I can totally understand why he did not want to make it 6 just so he can have a jolly without her.  Looking after a small baby on your own is hard and tiring, especially if you are the one getting up multiple times during the night (which his wife may be if she is breastfeeding).  Your brother does not appear to think he is the centre of the universe, he is just being a normal and decent dad.

I have total sympathy for people with kids who want to bring them along to things since as an only child I was snuck into all kinds of events as a kid.  Probably helped that I was utterly shy and would just quietly sit next to my mum but also worth remembering any kid is probably bored as hell by an evening with adults.

I think it is pretty much all middle class parents these days bullace (at least everyone I know).  My parents also comment on how remarkably spoilt my nephews are and tend to encourage my sister to revolve her life around them less, to no avail.

And the reason men back in the day used to play golf the day after their kid was born is because there was a lack of respect for women’s labour in the home and for the importance of the father’s role in bringing up a child. The fact that we (or most of us) have moved on from this is a good thing.

I totally get that kids are (rightly) the centre of their parents' world and utterly dominate their lives but many would do well to remember that their kids are not the centre of my world and act accordingly in my and others' presence.

Why can't my friend come and watch the football again for two hours. " Because I'm looking after the baby"

Me: Fair , where is the mother?

Him: She's looking after the baby also

Does it take two adults to look after a sleeping baby/toddler for 2 hours

They have a "clue", but often come across as naive.  There's some nativity on this thread, albeit I know its being deliberately pejoratively put at times.

My sister in law is on maternity leave.

My brother works full time at home. They are together all of the time. You'd think they might appreciate some brief time apart.

Also he very rarely takes my niece to see my parents (who had given up hope of having grandkids and are absolutely besotted with her). They would be absolutely delighted to look after her, but tmy brother and his wife won't let the kid out of their sight.

"And the reason men back in the day used to play golf the day after their kid was born is because there was a lack of respect for women’s labour in the home and for the importance of the father’s role in bringing up a child. The fact that we (or most of us) have moved on from this is a good thing."

There is some truth in this I suspect yes, but we have now swung the other way.  I have m7s who get a day "off" about twice a year (and their wife likewise) simply because it takes two of them most weekends to cater for their kids various activites etc.  That is definitely a change.

the naivety on the thread comes from those with precious little bundles and a failure to accept that they are not very interesting to anyone but them

but really, tis down to them tisnt it

#notmypeople

i feel quite strongly that you shouldnt patronise those without children 

you have no idea about the reasons they do not have children, and to enhance divisions b/c 'they coldnt understand' must be very narrow minded of you.

im not blind, but i can recognise it would be a bit shit

I am fed up with the working parents at work who moan about their lot and the fact they have to work and were awake at night, nanny has handed in her notice..and so on. Yes. That is parenthood. Millions are juggling childcare and earn a pittance and just get on with it so get a grip. 

Fair enough Geoff, it sounds like they might be being a bit OTT.

You're right they need to work out ways to still do some stuff and have a bit of time apart.

This just reminds me of a friend of mine.  He managed to get out the other night for a few hours to see his friends but we felt bad about him leaving his wife at home as she's got a brain tumour and two toddlers.  At least for now she's well enough to still look after the kids on her own but as the prognosis is six to eighteen months I doubt we'll be seeing much of my friend now until the funeral.  He actually came out because he wanted to give us the bad news in person rather by phone but made it all more emotional.

1. it is a bit of an achievement, particularly if you look like me

2. otherwise agree. Other people's kids are rarely interesting and the joys and burdens of parenthood are even less interesting.

Employment lawyers may want to correct me but I don't think being a parent is a protected characteristic so you could probably fire them on the spot if it's impacting their work. 

Jesus Christ SS, that's awful.  Yeah I doubt you will be seeing much of him.  Or indeed after the funeral, when he's working and raising two young kids on his own.

I agree that there is naivety here about how easy looking after a very young baby is. The fact is that a very young baby may want to be on the mother constantly and cry for its mother when separated.  I had this and found it very exhausting, particularly as I also had health complications after the birth. I did find it easier with someone with me. To be honest I think it is simply misogynistic to dismiss any difficulty women experience after birth as moaning or selfishness.  

Totally.  And I think if you're a half-decent husband/dad you err on the side of caution and don't put too much in the diary so you can be there, either as a second pair of hands or looking after the baby so your partner can have a bit of time to herself.  (I'm not going to pretend that women don't do most of the child care - they almost universally do).

And actually good friends/family recognise this dynamic and try and work with it.

Sorry he lives near his wife's family so will at least have plenty of help from her parents and siblings (her siblings have six kids between them so should be able to help look after a couple more!).

I think that middle class British people have a tendency to make a hilarious meal out of everything

the idea that ONE kid in your lovely house with hot running water and indoor toilets and unlimited food and drink renders you incapable of doing anything else would blow the minds of every parenting generation before this one (and plenty of contemporary parents around the world)

Of course people go weird when they have kids, their lives change fundamentally and irrevocably. I've never heard the OP's question asked by someone who has kids...which shows that those without kids simply can't know, despite thinking they do.

I see this so often. People with kids thinking they are special and that the rest of us can't possibly understand.

Get over yourselves you complete arsetards.

as I specifically said above, sometimes that must be true although pretty much all of my parent friends see me as much as they did before kids. Some invite me over to theirs because it's easier, also fine as I hate to clean.

but often it is an angry "I want to you don't understand what it's LIKE, I cannot!"

and tbh I do understand because I am not a moron

you can leave your kid

how do I know this? because throughout history most people have left their kids. "oh no but he cries for me". Yeah well boohoo he will get over it.

If you don't want to go out, cool. I can understand that. Don't moan on about how you can't, though, because unless you are in particularly terrible circumstances you absolutely can.

Amongst many other reasons as to why I am not having children, I am intrinsically selfish.  If I go out for supper with friends, and one suggests that they have to bring their children because they don't have/cannot afford a babysitter, I don't go.  The entire conversation and atmosphere of the evening is different when children are involved and I don't want to waste my time on that basis.  I would much rather do something else.  And most parents don't understand (are probably blind to) the impact it has.

Do people actually do this?

If I go out for dinner, either with my friends or my husband, I don't want my kid there.

Enjoying adult conversation and being able to eat my own meal while it's still hot rather than letting it congeal while I shovel pasta into my son's mouth is kind of the whole point of going out.

I see this so often too. People without kids who resent people with kids because in fact, it's people without kids that know it all. 

Also, all this shows is that aunts will be aunts, kids or no kids.

My parents loved taking me out as me and my buggy could be used as a kind of battering ram.  In the days before assigned seats on flights my dad would use me to clear people out of the way so he could get to the plane first and choose the seats he wanted.

Same LVP- I would not take my kids out to dinner with friends. Generally speaking, considerate people will also be considerate when/if they become parents and won't subject their non-kids friends to the delights/horrors of parenthood. 

I totally get young kids need a lot of looking after and after the babe in arms stage (where they just get taken to stuff) never expected to see that much of m7s at that stage for a few years unless it involves something kid friendly.   It is how secondary school aged kids are treated now that seems to me to have changed so much.   I dont think it is healthy for parent or child that the parent is basically devoting most of their own leisure time not only to feeding and clothing  these older children but also making sure they are entertained.

And people with kids with disabilities - that’s another level 

I can’t know, and am not so arrogant to presume to know, how hard that would be.

no doubt Geoff knows all about raising a severely autistic child that needs 24/7 care

I agree re secondary school age but so many of my friends are going through CAHMS nightmares at the moment (where the advice is, no exaggeration, "there is a waiting list for the waiting list - meanwhile hide any cables and bladed items") that I can understand

I don't think the generally culture of babying helps tbh - kids turn 16 and are completely lacking in resilience or genuine self confidence because theyve never been left to do anything themselves

It is how secondary school aged kids are treated now that seems to me to have changed so much.   I dont think it is healthy for parent or child that the parent is basically devoting most of their own leisure time not only to feeding and clothing  these older children but also making sure they are entertained.

How many secondary school age kids are unable to feed and dress themselves?

I'd probably want to play at least some part in entertaining them just to reduce the risk of them deciding to entertain themselves by shooting up in the park, but still.

I mean wash clothes, cook meals, most parents do that for older kids.  From about the age of 11 we basically went around each others houses in the winter and hung out outside in the summer (admittedly graduating to cheap cider in the park by the age of 15/16) and when at home watched telly read books or did homework.  We didn't get ferried around from one hobby to the next all weekend and every other evening or taken to places designed for kids.  It was the same for all my friends.  Also everybody begged to be allowed to stay home when parents went on holiday (usually being allowed from about age 15).  These days kids seem to holiday with their parents into their twenties...

I suppose what I am trying to convey is that parents were usually loved but somewhat background figures once one hit secondary school, these days kids and parents lives seem to orbit around each other much longer.  No skin off my nose of course, but I do wonder if it is particularly good for either of them.

Guy I think part of that is the increased competition in life in general.  It's no longer enough to have a three decent A-levels applying and you need to do all the other stuff so parents feel the need to lay on all the extra activities to give their kids a chance in life.  In my day I was just sent off to a school that organised all that stuff as part of everyday school life so my parents just organised one or two activities in the holidays to keep me and my friends busy.