How it might have looked
Ince's former Singapore Managing Partner has been fined by the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal, after he was convicted in Singapore for “unwanted touching” of three women in a bar.
In 2019, a Singapore court convicted Devandran Karunakaran for using "criminal force" against three women on a night out in May 2018. He was subsequently fired by Ince.
The SRA has now brought the matter before the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal. The tribunal noted that the Singapore court had ruled that the lawyer had, without consent, stroked a 48 year-old female's back and waist; stroked a 28 year-old female from her left shoulder to her left waist; and stroked a 30 year-old female "from her right waist to her buttock" and held her waist "to pull her towards him". In reaching its decision, the court also took into consideration "worded offences" that the lawyer made to one of the women.
The Singapore court said the senior shipping lawyer knew it to be "likely" his actions would "outrage the modesty" of the women.
It was an eventful night for Karunakaran, who also "uttered threatening and abusive words" to a doorman "by threatening to make him lose his job and uttering the words 'F*** you mate," repeatedly. He reinforced that threat and his abuse by telling the doorman that he was a lawyer.
It was noted at the SDT hearing that "all allegations" brought by the SRA "were found proved including sexual motivation".
The tribunal slapped the senior shipping lawyer with a £9,000 fine, and awarded full costs of £23,850 to the SRA.
The tribunal upheld the SRA's allegations that the lawyer's actions against the women "were unwanted, inappropriate and/or sexually motivated". The panel found that Karunakaran had breached the SRA principle of integrity and/or had acted in a way which would likely bring into disrepute an overseas practice.
A spokesman for Karunakaran told RollOnFriday: “It is not possible to comment fully until the detailed judgement is issued. However, the level of fine indicates that the tribunal did not assess this matter as ‘very serious’, since the fine was at the lower end of the band below that category."
"It is consistent with the Singapore court’s view that these offences, five years ago, were minor offences without premeditation which were fleeting in nature," he said.
The spokesman disputed the SDT's findings of sexual intent, stating that "while ‘unwanted’ touching was a complaint" by the women in the Singapore court case, they had not accused Karunakaran "of ‘sexual’ touching” in those proceedings.
“There was no allegation of sexual motivation in Singapore and he was not charged with that,” the spokesman asserted. “The word ‘sexual’ was never mentioned in Singapore by anyone, not least by the judge. That was the SRA's own allegation and no one else’s."
Ince did not respond to a request for comment.
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Comments
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He did it in Singapore and UK senior people did it in Cardiff. Same toxic disgusting culture across the whole firm.
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Dirty bugger
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I like Devandran Karunakaran!
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@8.36 - which UK senior people in Cardiff? Where can we read about their convictions? Otherwise hard to believe.
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His comment back sounds fairly reasonable and accurate. Even so he should not have done it. I suspect if people gave up drink most of these kinds of incidents would never take place. I don't drink.
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Chat shit get banged
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Could happen to the pope
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@9.27
https://www.rollonfriday.com/news-content/exclusive-ince-takes-action-against-staff-who-were-rude-restaurant
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To be fair, he was just showing those women a sample of the Ince culture
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Another example of giving the legal profession a bad name.
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Question Man, Question Man
Defends the accused whenever he can
Spins a yarn with his "why?"s
Knows all women are telling lies
Look out!
Here comes the Question Man
Is he wrong?
Listen bud
These women are just slinging mud
Can he be objective?
Just read the invective
Hey there
There goes the Question Man
In the RoF comments
Man accused of crime
"She has no evidence!"
He arrives just in time
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"There was no allegation of sexual motivation in Singapore and he was not charged with that"
He was found guilty of "outrage of modesty", colloquially known as molestation. Sure sounds sexual to me.
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"stroked a 48 year-old female's back and waist; stroked a 28 year-old female from her left shoulder to her left waist; and stroked a 30 year-old female"
Personally, I think he should be being applauded for having such a broad and open minded approach to prospective partners.
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"His comment back sounds fairly reasonable and accurate."
Lydia clearly elated to hear that women in their late 40's are still getting picked up in bars.
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@10.35 - right, and what court found the guilty? We don't know whether they were to blame or not in the link you sent.
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@10.52 - not the legal profession, just him.
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Presumably they undertook a thorough review of the facts, carried out a disciplinary, and most importantly protected their reputation. "Reputation, reputation, oh my reputation". bravo.
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Anonymous Anonymous 07 July 23 10:52: exactly. The profession is right to censure people like him and Bretherton.
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Overfriendly neighbourhood Question Man 07 July 23 11:24: perfectly sums up everyone’s favourite sociopath.
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@13:12 must be Ince’s PR company again.
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Not sure about this, feels like a Beckwith or Lester.
A lot of sound and fury at the start but I think that, just like those two well known cases, this guy will end up being cleared of all wrongdoing by the BSB.
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@13.12 - found which guilty?
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@8.56 - was hd completely cleared of all wrongdoing by the BSB, like you?
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Question Man's poem is really lacking quality. That's what happens when a bunch of middle class white partners (stung by own phone hacking) try to have banter. I'm just happy that accountability trumps all here, this is most important (aside from when dealing with own children - TCs all round for these thick kids).
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@11.24:
What 'Question Man'?
What accused?
Whenever who can?
What yarn?
What "why's"?
What women?
What lies?
Look out where?
Where comes the 'Question Man'?
What 'Question Man'?
Is who wrong?
Listen to what?
Who is 'bud'?
What women, and why are they mud wrestling?
Can who be objective?
What invective?
Listen where?
Where goes the 'Question Man'?
What 'Question Man'?
What RoF comments?
What men?
What crimes?
Who has no evidence?
What crimes are established with no evidence?
Who arrives just in time?
Who is this Justin Time you speak of, what are you accusing him of and on what basis (other than his gender)?
So many questions, so few answers!
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Anonymous 07 July 23 17:26: who is hd?
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@Lord Lester 07 July 23 08:56 - solidarity amongst gropers!
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Anonymous 07 July 23 15:46 - how can you feel what is written in this article?
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Karunakaran gives the legal profession a bad name. Good to see him censured.
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@Anonymous 07 July 23 15:46 - how can you hear the words in the article?
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This is similar to the Lester case. Senior lawyer with a sense of entitlement, sexually harasses someone.
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@Ghimpy - if its a culture at Ince please give 5 more cases which resulted in convictions. Betcha can't!
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@Friendly Neighbourhood No Answer Woman 07 July 23 19:03 - please get help, Question Man. You are not well.
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@Anonymous 07 July 23 08:36 and Ghimpy 07 July 23 10:48 - yes. Very toxic culture.
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Anonymous 07 July 23 08:42 - and that’s just Lord Lester!
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@Papa Emeritus IV - possibly, but outrage of modesty isn't necessarily sexual. Best not to see sex everywhere.
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@15.13 - although as Bretherton didn't break any laws the regulators had no right to get involved. Which is why he'll appeal the decision at a real court like Beckwith did.
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I don't understand some of the comments here. Wasn't Lord Lester cleared of all wrongdoing by the BSB in the end?
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@[email protected] - not sure about that - they've got [email protected] singing anyway. And totally out of answers.
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Definitely like the Lester matter.
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@[email protected] - always a mistake to say that anyone questioning your accusations must somehow be related to whoever you're accusing. Makes it look you have no argument to back up your accusations.
Still waiting to hear about these senior people in Cardiff who've been convicted of something who you're supposed to be telling us about. The silence on this is telling.
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@[email protected] - yeah, the poem was really lame. Good job its author was absolutely schooled by @[email protected].
What middle class white partners, and why does their race matter? What phone hacking? What banter? Accountability for what? TCs are being offered to baby goats? Huge if true!
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@[email protected] - someone who was completely cleared of all wrongdoing by the BSB
@[email protected] - Lord Lester was accused of groping someone when changing gears. However, he says his car was an automatic.
@[email protected] - you can't, but a situation can feel like something, silly
@[email protected] - not the profession, just him
@[email protected] - you cant, although you thought you could hear words in an article recently. People make a lot of sound after reading articles though, @15.46 is correct.
@[email protected] - although Lester was completely cleared of all wrongdoing by the BSB and the House of Lords voted that the process by which he was found to have sexually harassed anyone was unfair. Ultimately he came out of it looking like a victim.
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Anonymous 07 July 23 21:24 - that’s a non-sequitur.
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Karunakaran is a disgrace.
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Still waiting to read about these senior people in Cardiff who've been convicted. Looks at watch....
Beginning to think 7th @ 8.36 made it all up.
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Still wondering why someone can feel and hear the words in an article.
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Anonymous 08 July 23 10:30 - no, Lord Lester wasn’t cleared by the BSB. The BSB had no jurisdiction to interfere with the findings of the House of Lords, which held that he had committed harassment and was guilty of abuse of position, pursuant to a fair process.
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Anonymous 10 July 23 09:11 - that’s (still) a non-sequitur.
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@Anon 07 July 23 19:47: we are still waiting to hear who “hd” is.
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Bretherton certainly gives the legal profession a bad name. Right that he has been kicked out.
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@ Anonymous 07 July 23 15:46 - you think the article is speaking to you. Are you OK?
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07.25 - you may be. Everyone else knows one can't hear or feel the words in the article.
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Anon 11 July 23 07:25: Lord Lester enjoyed feeling - especially if it was unwanted and took place in his kitchen!
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So senior people in Cardiff didn't do anything like this after all. False allegations are very common in sexual 'harassment' or misconduct matters.
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Anonymous 07 July 23 08:36 - yes. The senior Cardiff people were notorious.
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@14.58 - nobody has come up with any evidence to support that, despite being asked for it. That and the absence of any convictions suggests that they're not notorious.
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Anon 07 July 23 19:51 - solidarity amongst gropers could have been the motto for Ince’s Cardiff office!
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@17.43 - what evidence do you have to support this? You've been unable to provide details of convictions. No record of complaints, investigations, findings. Meaning nothing happened.
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Anonymous 14 July 23 20:19: I don’t need to provide you with any evidence. You are a weirdo and this is just a commentary thread. I was there and plenty of unpleasant things happened and complaints were raised.
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When I was at the Cardiff office of Ince, we used to call it “Wince”, because we were so embarrassed at the behaviour of many of the senior lawyers.
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@Ben - what behaviour? Where can we see convictions supporting you accusations? Nowhere it seems.
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@Anon 15 July 23 07:12 - Question Man really is a weirdo.
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Anonymous 16 July 23 00:08 - further non-sequitur!
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@8.07 - anyone who thinks asking for evidence to support unsubstantiated and dubious allegations is weird is a weirdo.
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Anonymous 16 July 23 10:36 - but dysfunctional behaviour to ask for this in the commentary section of an online publication. Get a life.
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@Ben 15 July 23 07:22 - they were grim times in the Cardiff office of Ince, Ben, but we all seem to have found decent jobs elsewhere, thank goodness.
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Anon 16 July 23 08:07 - Question Man is probably mentally ill.
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Thankfully, false allegations of sexual harassment are rare.
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Anonymous 16 July 23 10:36 - you ok hun.
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@Anon 10 July 23 06:59 - spot on.
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Anon 11 July 23 09:22 - high definition?
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@anon 16 July 23 18:02: no, Question Man is very far from OK.
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@[email protected] - although since he says he was upstairs packing for a flight at the time that would have been very difficult.
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