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Let your next career move come to you.

remember how it used to kind of silently go against you if you never socialised with the team?

sure the Thursday drinks were optional but saying no wasn't a real option

is it still the same round your way or has WFH killed it off?

secretly compulsory socialising is one of the best things to have been laid low by Covid Culture

I'm not sorry organised fun has been killed off, but I do find some people take the p with wfh - we are meant to be in 2-3 days a week, and some team members barely ever bother to show up (can quite easily go 6 weeks without seeing them in person)

I do not miss organised fun, but I do think the more organic friendships that grew up in the work place are now less likely to be built, which is a shame.

why is that "taking the p"?

the office is a waste of time and the commute is a waste of life

it's sad if you are so obedient as to go along with whatever you're told 

I intend to get to retirement age or death without ever regularly working in an office again

this little fight against the dying of the light that the 50+ers are currently leading will exitinguish when Gen Z start to dominate the junior ranks

A cheap stainless steel platter, laden with popcorn, carefully balanced on a printer. 6 bottles each of some Chilean red and white. Room temperature peroni. Sectaries with that look in their eye. Someone's going to be told precisely why they're an arsehole. Pray it isn't you. 

We are still largely going hybrid rather than all work from home. We still have enforced fun activities which did include a formal dinner last week. I engage with some of it (loved the ski trip) but not all of it. Sometimes it is great for forming or improving relationships, sometimes great for finding out more about what people are up to. Still I expect to be working a bit more from home in the next role.

when I was a trainee I used to pick up all sorts of stuff by listening in on phone calls with clients or other solicitors made by the partner I was sharing a room with.  It's also easy to ask questions in person or wander into a colleague's room to find stuff out, etc (as well as the organic social stuff guy mentions).  It's not as easy to pick up the phone to someone when you're junior and need to ask something.  I agree commuting is a nightmare/waste of time but there are benefits to being in the same physical place as colleagues. 

it still does.

I don;t take part in departmental drinks, parties, events. There is a regional meeting in a European City from today and I am not there.  There are good reasons for this - my life does not accommodate anything but doing the work and managing my frail family fugue at the moment. Drinks, parties, dinners and offsite powerpoint durges can feck off. Clients, family, is all.

As a result I am largely regarded as a weirdo cat who walks by himself. Social relationships have dwindled. I lunch by myself. I clock in and out. Brief hellos and goodbyes. the tension is palpable. Dead man walking. Still standing on the playground tarmac while the teams have been selected. I don't blame anyone as it is my choice. But social participation is still an expectation and non participation is still judged.  

I hope (sincerely) they are enjoying their lives and that the spirit among them is good. 

Tom - I'm planning to visit one of your sites later in the year and it sounds amazing! 

Re juniors it's a lot fecking easier to teams someone than to hover by their desk hoping they're not busy, trying to tell, they're not turning round, maybe clear your throat?

The office was awful and tech improves absolutely every aspect of it. It's a handy excuse for people who aren't doing well to claim otherwise ofc.

I feel sorry for the trainees and junior associates these days as I had a great time back in the day being in the office- socially and from a learning perspective. I would’ve found it a bit isolating being a trainee at a firm where people dont regularly come in.

Anyway, I don’t regularly go in anymore (once a week despite office policy) and I love it. London commuting is something I could easily never do again.

muttley this sort of thing makes me sick

we have our lives and our work and work has no entitlement to control the other parts of our lives

they can fck off - look after yourself - when we leave a workplace they will have forgotten our names in 3 months

“I am largely regarded as a weirdo cat who walks by himself”

Heh. Kindred spirits, mutts, once again. I emphasise I never actually go to work socials!

A cheap stainless steel platter, laden with popcorn, carefully balanced on a printer. 6 bottles each of some Chilean red and white. Room temperature peroni. Sectaries with that look in their eye. Someone's going to be told precisely why they're an arsehole. Pray it isn't you. 

Had this last week for a leaving do and was quite jolly and continued to the pub.

why would you as a man in his later middle age?

If you are half pleasant (I am) then you just get cornered by slightly tipsy emotional junior lawyers who want to offload about someone/something/confidence/worry/career anxiety or dislike of someone.

You have no choice but to be careful about the company you keep as a male coworker, whether you are junior, mid or ancient, but especially when ancient. 

You can't get drunk or speak your mind. you can't have a laugh as third of the gang will take umbrage at your words, a third will take it as permission to do worse and you will be responsible for having sponsored their misconduct, a third will look at you and think how tragic and steer clear.

You are better off letting them be, allowing them to be accountable for their own conduct in your absence, attending to your own balance.

Life used to be very different. But that was then and I was younger. It is the deal.

Chilean wine is great. 

It is what European wine tasted like before the dreaded Phylloxera destroyed everything. Particularly their Carmenere is astoundingly good.

I have had that so often Clergs. It absolutely ruins an evening.

Wife: how did it go.

Me: well I got there and there was no booze left in the paid for stuff so I had to queue for some foul American IPA cloudy mouthwash from a tap then just as I was about to get myself outside 500ml of Listerine I was approached by Daisy DIngle who was shaking like a shitting dog and wanted to tell me, over the next two hours, how all the partners hated her. Eventually she started crying and I made my excuses and got my coat but on the way out a do gooder senior associate came staggering over and said "I SAW WHAT YOU DID TO DAISY" then fell over unconscious.  A seccy said she saw me hit him.  I never drank the listerine and all the food was gone before I arrived. I couldn't get a taxi and the trains were cancelled. Other than that, fine.

i don't really drink any more, - have had 2 drinks in 12 months - so I am the sober elder statesman, so the edge isn't even taken off the whole business. If I were tipsy elder gent I would probably say "May I interrupt? You should stop talking now and leave"

some are some are not. I cannot afford to worry about whether they do or don't or to spend time telling people for protective reasons and thereby to put sensitive information in the hands of some who will respect it and some who will not.  I have to tread a careful line and recognise there will be judgers but they will one day realise they got it wrong. I just deliver, go, deliver, go, deliver, go.   Anyone I trust who I have told I have let them know I am fine with them telling others. It is their business to decide how they want to regard me.

That story sort of flashed me back to very straight laced partner in a 3 day completion meeting storm taking a call from his wife at 8am the day after not coming home. 

 

Wife: Where were you last night?

Partner, delirious with tiredness: oh, sorry. I had planned to come home but the night wore on and Sarah [trainee] and I went to a hotel together to sleep together. 

 

He didn't mean the final word, but it couldn't be unsaid. 

I'm definitely a present ringleader on the occasions I do go out with work well actually it's more being known as someone who will stay and have another one without much persuasion.

from an almost objective side view I would say that

  • most misconduct is triggered by or occurs when colleagues and alcohol are in the same place. I'm not actually talking about sex. I am talking about bullying, gossip, cliquey divisiveness, prejudiuce and discrimination etc.
  • people find it easier to complain about the deal than to be constructive and create the world they want to live in, and alcohol doubles that
  • some of the most strident do-gooder challenger types (who jump down the throat of any leader saying anything and run the backchatmainstream) are the most dangerous opinion churners who quietly choreograph opinion based on non-fact through the medium of socials. The only way to deal with them is to have no level of engagement at all. Let the rage eat them.

Not being part of the team isn't great. But being "too part of the team" isn't great either. 

 

As a trainee I was told "you can run with the foxes or you can hunt with the hounds, but not both". 

one of the worst things is failure to accept that when you are in a leadership role you aren't everyone's mate and you aren't actually welcome pissing it up the wall with folk. Occasionally it is strangely exciting for people to have the big old bird about, but anything more than a surprise hour visitation is an error. 

Our loose rule is "open bar for an hour" and pay for food. If you're funding more than 2 drinks per person you're putting the firm at risk where someone gets shitted and falls into the Thames. 

I'm not a lawyer, but this all sounds v sad.

I work for a US firm in the City.  I am 42 and have a team of seven (four in London) across Europe, ranging from 23-35 yo.  Whenever we're in the office together, 3-4 days a week, we all have lunch together away from our desks.  We all socialise together, never benders, but a few beers in the pub next door, occasional meal, darts, Comedy Store etc.  Maybe they all think I'm a tragic David Brent, but our retention suggests not (for now!).

There are other leaders in our firm who do similar - maybe it's more of an American thing.  I've only ever worked for US firms.

we are ad idem on the go hard or stay home thing mutts, the difference being increasingly I think I should go hard, lead the charge at the bar just as on the deal

why did you “dread” people turning up to drunks in the basis of their age?

r u some kind of weirdo?

got work drinks 2nite as it goes

looking forward

I’m one of the gang

They were either tell tale tits or fvcking weirdos. 

You want to be able to get together and slag off all the David Brents, not have some middle aged bloke droning on about cars or fishing or having to explain yourself to HR on Monday morning 

The team is for work time, clubbers. Imagine giving your life to a totally pointless and boring office job. Not for all the gold currently being bought up by China 

For me, heaven is always being david brent in that king arthur themed nightclub 

put your arms round the drunken team huddle, yell quoting the mate DMX: TALK TOO MUCH FOR TOO LAWNG!!! and then get a double round of shots in

extraordinary behaviour

I slag off work to my wife. But actually I don’t slag off work that much. What’s the point? Don’t like it, don’t do it

They were fun days as a youngster.

 

However I am glad I do not have to do it now I am old. 

 

They do come up occasionally though. The last one was a client invited me on an early morning fishing trip. 

 

We all started drinking at 7 am and he had brought a young girl from work to serve the drinks. 

 

Obviously that sort of thing is frowned in the UK these days (i.e. everyone would have been fired for the first minute of banter).

I’d like to have a pretty girl follow me round serving drinks to me and my mates at all times. At least at the weekends. At minimum wage it’s probably only a hundred quid a day

would be perfect for golf actually

the foursome joined by a comely fifth caddie whose golf bag is refrigerated and stacked with beer and spirits

Tbf the people who were a bit older (50/60ish) were usually a good laugh - they usually weren’t interested in climbing the greasy pole and had that old person thing where they just say what they think 

it’s the middle aged, middle management, soggy around the middle lot that you need to avoid

There are drinks here probably 2/3 times a week 

Just colleagues in a pub. It's nice. People clearly enjoy it as they do it all the time. 

I've had 2 invites today - declined both as have a client thing 

But I don't go for long. Nobody wants the boss there. Buy a few rounds or give the trainee an hundred quid and go home. Easy. Once a week absolute max.

Occasionally have a drink up with senior leaders but that's probably 1 every 2 months 

Obviously that's different to work organised events like Christmas party, new joiners party etc etc etc 

I was LITERALLY about to say, how long before some absolute dangleberry comes on here and says the way to handle work drinks is go early, show your face, get your round in, few bon more and leave.

How to look like a khunt: Chapter 1

How can you say things like

‘brought a young girl from work to serve the drinks. ’

‘ I’d like to have a pretty girl follow me round serving drinks to me and my mates at all times’

‘Comely fifth caddie’

How can you say this? How? How is this not something you check yourself for thinking let alone saying. 

This is not ok. It is NOT. 

There was a stage when I was a self-serving grabby male who could not see discrimination all around me and that I was part of the problem. 

There was there a stage where I was weary of listening to people complaining that they were the victims of discrimination. 

I’m now stage where I genuinely think if men don’t stand up and admit that comments like the above are guaranteed to maintain an appetite for gender discrimination and a bloke-orientated lad’s club of shed that works against improving everyone’s opportunities and culture, including their own, then we must instead admit that we are purposefully destroying opportunity for others. It is an either/or thing. Either you are pro change and balance or you want to drag the world backwards. 

There was a stage when I was a self-serving grabby male who could not see discrimination all around me and that I was part of the problem. 

There was then a stage where I was weary of listening to people complaining that they were the victims of discrimination. 

I’m now at a stage where I genuinely think if men don’t stand up and admit that comments like the above are guaranteed to maintain an appetite for gender discrimination and a bloke-orientated lad’s club of shit that works against improving everyone’s opportunities and culture, including their own, then we must instead admit that we are purposefully destroying opportunity for others. 
It is an either/or thing. Either you are pro change and balance or you want to drag the world backwards. 

the way to handle work drinks is go early, show your face, get your round in, few bon more and leave

That is always my intent but after the first two beers all caution goes out the window. Thankfully the only compromising thing I've done (as far as I know) is to admit to people how old I really am and my plan to retire by the end of THIS YEAR.

if any consolation, tipsy older gentleman can be charming whereas tipsy older lady triggers "oh no mum why are you drunk mortifying!" instincts 

hard disagree, thank the lord for tipsy mature ladies... 

Yes that’s all well and good, but who wouldn’t actually like an attractive person following them around offering them drinks? It’s not sex specific. And I have more daughters than u

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